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1986 FBI Miami shootout recreation vid

DickWanner said:
Was it more accurate to the original events?
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Dunno. I would suspect that the FBI movie was more accurate, but I haven't studied written reports of the event and compared them to the films.

The FBI's takeaway at the time -- that it was an ammunition failure -- is not something that I agree with.
 
Kenny474 said:
Pretty rough shootout, though the Hollywood shootout is still a bit worse in my opinion.
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That shootout was way longer but no good guys died in that one. The ranges involved in both are completely different. The Miami incident took place at extreme CQB distances, only one of the FBI guys was more than 20 feet away from the perps, IIRC.

FWIW, this is the best writeup I've seen on the net about the incident...

http://www.thegunzone.com/11april86.html

-Mike
 
bringing this back, just saw this video. interesting. Mireles is a true life shotgun ed

 
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What i'll never understand is why the FBI stopped using the 10mm. Who cares if it's snappy, how many times do u actually pull it out for self defense purposes? When your in a serious situation situation like this, the last thing u'll be thinking about is if ur wrist is gonna hurt tommorow, you might not make it too tommorow. Having the power of a .41 mag and just about the capacity of a 9mm ( -2rds) is a no brainer for me.

It's a life saving solution, so practice with a forty and stop whining about your wrists please.

9mm is the new .22
 
rkwjunior said:
What i'll never understand is why the FBI stopped using the 10mm.
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Because the .40 met their requirements in gel tests etc, with a wider variety of guns to choose from that made better ergonomic sense. the 10mm is still a superior cartridge but within the constraints of the test the FBI uses the difference is not so dramatic- It all rests on whether or not someone believes in the energy transfer myth or not. Apparently the FBI FTU did not. I don't either... and it's part of the reason why I carry a 9mm with very little hesitation, because it's not that far off from the others that it will make a significant
difference.

It's a life saving solution, so practice with a forty and stop whining about your wrists please.

9mm is the new .22
Click to expand...

Completely ignorant gun shop commando tripe here. Particularly given the advancement of handgun ammunition in the past 20 years. The cartridge used in the FBI shootout was perhaps the worst performing 9mm cartridge on the market, the only way you could get worse than the 9mm silvertip is to use something like Magsafe, etc. We're not in 1986 anymore. Even a few years later far superior ammunition was produced, such as the Hydrashok, etc. Those FBI agents would have been better off with ball ammo at the time.

I like 10mm too, and honestly I think the .40 is worse than 10mm because in a lot of cases its actually harder to shoot because the guns are too light for the cartridge, but 10mm is pretty much "done" in LE circles because the benefit is not perceived to offset the costs. The real problem now, also, is almost nobody loads good 10mm defense ammo now outside of custom houses like buffalo bore, etc. There is no Win Ranger 10mm load, no Speer GDHP factory 10mm load, or Fed HST 10mm load, or even rem golden saber. If you want good quality 10mm SD ammo nowadays, you pretty much have to handload it yourself, or buy it from a custom house like BB, etc.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
The real problem now, also, is almost nobody loads good 10mm defense ammo now outside of custom houses like buffalo bore, etc. There is no Win Ranger 10mm load, no Speer GDHP factory 10mm load, or Fed HST 10mm load, or even rem golden saber.
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I really want a Glock 20 but the lack of availability of 10mm is discouraging. When you do find adequate 10mm god knows how bad the price will be.
 
BostonVI said:
I really want a Glock 20 but the lack of availability of 10mm is discouraging. When you do find adequate 10mm god knows how bad the price will be.
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If you're not reloading you are completely wasting your time with the 10mm platform. It's not worth touching at that point. If you are reloading (or intend on doing it in short order) it's pretty much a dream cartridge for it, because there are a lot of different loads and its pretty easy to deal with as long as you have brass, and it uses the same bullets as .40 S+W, plus you can load up things like 200s as well.

You can probably make "competent" SD ammo with things like 180 gr GDHP heads or similar from Remington.

A G20 or a G29 for a non reloader might as well be called "Holster and Safe dust collector" because that's exactly what it will do. [laugh]

-Mike
 
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Mike,

What is your opinion on the two below rounds? Thanks.

CCI Blazer 200 Grain Total Metal Jacket


Federal American Eagle 180GR
 
practice, practice, practice....as said in the video, Matrix purchased 5k rounds and was practicing in the everglades at 500-750/week.
 
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atilla said:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=114

your wallet wants steak.
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drgrant said:
If you're not reloading you are completely wasting your time with the 10mm platform. It's not worth touching at that point. If you are reloading (or intend on doing it in short order) it's pretty much a dream cartridge for it, because there are a lot of different loads and its pretty easy to deal with as long as you have brass, and it uses the same bullets as .40 S+W, plus you can load up things like 200s as well.

You can probably make "competent" SD ammo with things like 180 gr GDHP heads or similar from Remington.

A G20 or a G29 for a non reloader might as well be called "Holster and Safe dust collector" because that's exactly what it will do. [laugh]

-Mike
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The 10mm platform is what got me into reloading. I have a G20 & G29. But I still keep a stash of Buffalo Bore on hand. [wink]

6u2ydyde.jpg
 
drgrant said:
That shootout was way longer but no good guys died in that one. The ranges involved in both are completely different. The Miami incident took place at extreme CQB distances, only one of the FBI guys was more than 20 feet away from the perps, IIRC.

FWIW, this is the best writeup I've seen on the net about the incident...

http://www.thegunzone.com/11april86.html

-Mike
Click to expand...

that's a great read, the conclusion as well!
 
exojam said:
Mike,

What is your opinion on the two below rounds? Thanks.

CCI Blazer 200 Grain Total Metal Jacket


Federal American Eagle 180GR
Click to expand...

It's just practice ammo, it works for what it's intended for, but it won't simulate what it's like to fire a full power 10mm round. I used a lot of both when I had 10mms floating around and the ammo wasn't as expensive. I remember getting the Blazer 200s for like $13 a box back in the day. Also had lots of Rem UMC 180, as well. One obvious distinction though is it's still not full power 10mm. It's more powerful than .40, obviously, on the chrono, but with the exception of Buffalo Bore, and maybe DoubleTap, none of the ammo on the market is loaded out to full spec. That's why its advantageous to reload 10mm. You can make "full power" stuff, "weak" stuff, and everything in between.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
It's just practice ammo, it works for what it's intended for, but it won't simulate what it's like to fire a full power 10mm round. I used a lot of both when I had 10mms floating around and the ammo wasn't as expensive. I remember getting the Blazer 200s for like $13 a box back in the day. Also had lots of Rem UMC 180, as well. One obvious distinction though is it's still not full power 10mm. It's more powerful than .40, obviously, on the chrono, but with the exception of Buffalo Bore, and maybe DoubleTap, none of the ammo on the market is loaded out to full spec. That's why its advantageous to reload 10mm. You can make "full power" stuff, "weak" stuff, and everything in between.

-Mike
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Mike,

Sounds good, thanks for the reply and information.

I have only shot the CCI so far. I just have not had a chance to try the Federal even though I have a few boxes.

13 bucks, I would love it if it cost that now, pretty much 40 bucks a box.

I did take the reloading coarse from Jim and hopefully in the spring I can get everything together to start trying some of my own.
 
Picton said:
Between this and the Apollo 13 thread, I think it's fair to say we can designate this a Necro-Thread Awareness Day.
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Dench said:
Makes me miss the old search system that was beyond useless. That way people couldnt commit such crimes here.
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Got it! đź‘Ť
I should start a new thread for each yearly event that should be recognized to keep you whiners from complaining.
 

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