1917 US Enfields - original ones are sometimes tough to find

[Bob01605]

I have four 1917 US Enfields all in original condition .. These are well built weapons that are many times overlooked by collectors and hobby shooters of older military rifles .. About 2 1/2 million were made from August of 1917 to sometime in 1919 when production was stopped. These were made by Winchester, Remington and Eddystone. Eddystone was a division of Remington located in Eddystone, PA. Eddystone made about 1.3 million rifles while Remington and Winchester each made about 600,000 rifles. Collectors like Winchester's because they made fewer rifles. I have owned and handled all three versions over the years and would say both the finish quality and shooting capabilities of each are about equal.

Rifle # 1 at the top is a Remington made rifle with a serial # in the 51XXX range. ME = 2.5 - excellent shooter
Rifle # 2 is an Eddystone made rifle with a serial # in the 487XXX range. ME = 1.5 - very good+ shooter
Rifle # 3 is an Eddystone made rifle with a serial # in the 825XXX range. ME = 2.5 - very good+ shooter
Rifle # 4 is an Eddystone made rifle with a serial # in the 1152XXX range. ME = 3.0 - very good+ shooter This rifle is the only one with all "E" parts. The three rifles at the top have some parts made by an arsenal other than the manufacturer of the action.

Things to consider ... It is a lot tougher to find a US 1917 Enfield in original condition especially with a decent (very good to excellent) ORIGINAL barrel than a 1903A3 Springfield or a Garand. These 1917 Enfield rifles are nearly 100 years old now and some were shot with corrosive ammo and not cleaned properly. Some were also stored in areas of high humidity. When you have near 100 years of time to work on the steel, a little corrosion is bound to happen. Compare that with WW2 1903A3 Springfields or WW2 Garands whose barrels have had only about 70 - 75 years of time to deteriorate.

Sights - While 1903A3 Springfields and Garands have a rear peep sight adjustable for both elevation and windage, the 1917 US Enfield is only adjustable for elevation. If you want to adjust windage on a 1917 Enfield, you tap the front sight over.

Rifling - While the 1903A3 Springfield has 2 and 4 groove barrels with a right hand twist, the 1917 US Enfield has a 5 groove barrel with (for some reason) a left hand twist. This fact is really inconsequential in relation to accuracy

Finish - AFAIK all original 1917 Enfields had a blued finish. There is information out there that many were rearsenaled and pressed into service during WW2. During the rearsenalling many were parkerized rather than reblued. One of my 1917 Enfields (#2 in the photo) does have a parkerized finish so I am guessing that this rifle was rearsenalled.

ME - (muzzle erosion) - I always bring my ME gauge when checking out (locally) US Garands, Springfields and US Enfield for possible purchase. Since I am a hobby shooter of military rifles and not a collector, the ME gauge plus a visual inspection of the barrel will usually tell you whether the rifle will be a decent shooter. Interesting to note .. Rifle # 2 with a ME of 1.5 does not shoot quite as well as rifle #1 with a ME of 2.5. Rifle # 1 (the Remington) does have a true "mint" bore ...

These are solidly built rifles which, if equipped with a barrel still in very good to excellent condition, can shoot as good as any US Springfield or Garand. Three of the four rifles shown (the top 3) will shoot under 4 inches at 100 yards consistently with most 5 shot groups being in the 2 1/2 inch to 3 inch range. The Remington made rifle shown at the top of the photo will shoot under 2 inches pretty consistently with my handloads. (46 grains of IMR 4064 with the 168 grain Hornady match bullet) For more info on the US 1917 Enfield check out the pdf file at the link below ..

http://www.odcmp.org/503/rifle.pdf

Bob

 

[99105]

In

 

[Maninblue1861]

Nice

 

[martin08]

Great spread of US Model 1917 rifles. Thanks for posting. I have a soft spot for these beauties, too.

Just a note. Records show that Eddystone began iron phosphate parkerizing in Sept. 1918, followed shortly after by Remington, and some say, Winchester. Though I have yet to see an original Winchester in black or grey park. The iron phosphate process was replaced by the manganese phosphate parkerizing about a month later.

The iron phosphate was very dark, almost black. The manganese phosphate was a lighter gray.

WWII era rebuilds had the greenish-gray parkerizing, and is easily distinguished from the two different late M1917 parkerizing finishes.


Iron phosphate finish.

Manganese phosphate finish.

 

[Parker Duofold]

Today I sold one of my K31 Swiss rifles and picked this US 1917 EDDYSTONE rifle.
The barrel is marked W 1 - 18 Maybe a Winchester barrel.
The stock, as you can perhaps see, has an "R" stamped on the end. Maybe a later replacement...?

I don't think it's been fired in a while and the rifle was very clean. The bore is very bright and I ran a few patches through using some Hoppes and they came out very clean.

 

[mac1911]

I want a 1917 to put in the rotation for cmp matches. I don't see to many and the ones I do find are rough.

 

[PATRON]

very nice rifle congrats.

 

[magoo]

I pick my mint one no import one for $200. I was redone for ww2 it shoots very well.

 

[Picton]

Can't resist: the M1917's British predecessor, my pristine 1916 Eddystone Pattern 14 in .303 British. This rifle is the reason the M1917 is referred to as an "Enfield" at all.

Excellent collection, OP!

 

[smokeeaterpilot]

Absolutley Gorgeous!

 

[OfficerObie59]

I love threads like this.

As someone who was trying to sell an M1917 last fall, I can tell you they're definitely the red headed stepchild of American milsurps. Hard to accurately price point, hard to sell. Not sure why, but everyone seems to prefer the M1903 which, by most accounts, seemed to have seen far less combat in WWI than it's M1917 counterpart.

 

[mark056]

I love threads like this. As someone who was trying to sell an M1917 last fall, I can tell you they're definitely the red headed stepchild of American milsurps. Hard to accurately price point, hard to sell. Not sure why, but everyone seems to prefer the M1903 which, by most accounts, seemed to have seen far less combat in WWI than it's M1917 counterpart.

The M1917 has always been the red headed step child of US military rifles even though in many respects it is the superior combat bolt gun, heavier and not as sleek looking. The US has been in love with the 1903 since its inception and generally speaking all Mausers. As I'm sure you are aware, prior to WW1 we paid a royalty to Mauser on each 1903 produced. Why the U.S. was so adamant to keep the 1903 in production during WW2 never made a whole lot of sense with millions of M1917s in the inventory.

Having grown up in the golden age of American Milsurps when you could buy guns thru the mail and at prices that were ridiculous by today's standards these guns were never highly prized or regarded as 1903s or the various and sundry Mausers from Germany, Europe and Latin America. Of course back in the day everybody was freaking about serial number ranges on 1903s and heat treating of the receivers. Below a certain number they were unsafe. There were endless debates about this.

M1917s IMO are very decent well made bolt guns well suited for service rifles and enough were sporterized back in the day to make decent hunting rifles. For you collectors, you don't even want to know but I'll tell you; in the mid 1950's 19 dollars or less could have gotten you a very nice M1917 in NRA VG to Excellent delivered to your door by the USPS. That's including S&H.

 

[Picton]

For you collectors, you don't even want to know but I'll tell you; in the mid 1950's 19 dollars or less could have gotten you a very nice M1917 in NRA VG to Excellent delivered to your door by the USPS. That's including S&H.

But... but... who'd you show your LTC to?

I never understood the 03 love either, but then I started my bolt-gun habit on Enfields and have never fired a Mauser. Is the cock-on-opening feature really that great?

 

[loneranger]

As to preference for 1903, my opinion is it may be in part due to the inaccuracies in the movie Sergeant York

 

[majspud]

Also remember the minimum wage in the '50s was $1.00/hr, adjusted to $8.00/hr for inflation today. Still $1/hr for a $19 rifle then is a whole lot better than $8/hr for a $600 rifle today (1:19 vs. 1:75)

T

 

[mark056]

As to preference for 1903, my opinion is it may be in part due to the inaccuracies in the movie Sergeant York

Although York's unit was issued 1917's, his son maintained that York swapped his for a 1903 and that is what he used. His son claims that is what York related to him. In the movie Gary Cooper also used a Luger. According to accounts he used a 1911. Apparently at the time Lugers could be used with blanks easier than 1911s so the studio prop people elected to go with that.

1903 love predates the movie Sgt York. Immediately after WW1 the War Dept mothballed the M1917 and made the 1903 general issue. You might have found some in the Nat Guard and a few sprinkled around in regular army units but they were by and large regarded as substitute standard and held in strategic reserve.

 

[CTpatriot]

Also remember the minimum wage in the '50s was $1.00/hr, adjusted to $8.00/hr for inflation today. Still $1/hr for a $19 rifle then is a whole lot better than $8/hr for a $600 rifle today (1:19 vs. 1:75)

T

i would compare wages like a car mechanic or plumber. minimum wage is not going to give a good comparison.i figure a plumber working for wages is at least 30/hour and this is the kind of consumser for a moderately priced rifle. the minimum wage employee then and now is likely to ask you if he can borrow your rifle.

 

[mark056]

i would compare wages like a car mechanic or plumber. minimum wage is not going to give a good comparison.i figure a plumber working for wages is at least 30/hour and this is the kind of consumser for a moderately priced rifle. the minimum wage employee then and now is likely to ask you if he can borrow your rifle.

Not to hijack this thread, but still waiting for a reply to my invitation. I should have indicated that it was an RSVP. If you did not receive the PM, please let me know.

 

[magoo]

I shot my 1st CMP bolt shoot with a M1917. The guy who let use it in the shoot sold it to me. It was my 1st 30/06 mill bolt gun. It's sad that it sits in the safe most of the time now.i shoot my 1903's now. I will have to dig it out and take it to the range,

 

[xcom]

I rarely shoot my M1917s but they are much better for target shooting that my '03s. The peep sight just makes that much of a difference for me. Plus the extra weight helps on the recoil. It's a beast, the Mosin of "American" rifles. My first bolt was an 03 but I grew more appreciation for the 17 as time went on.

 

[CTpatriot]

Not to hijack this thread, but still waiting for a reply to my invitation. I should have indicated that it was an RSVP. If you did not receive the PM, please let me know.

i'm very flattered by all your attention, In the next four months i need to make money for the year and support a welfare family somewhere out there. i'm very available in August though, i could bring my 686 and a box of 27 year old 357 ammo plus new plinking grade rounds.

 

[mark056]

i'm very flattered by all your attention, In the next four months i need to make money for the year and support a welfare family somewhere out there. i'm very available in August though, i could bring my 686 and a box of 27 year old 357 ammo plus new plinking grade rounds.

Well I take it you work on Saturdays, and are unavailable to attend the NES Trigger Break Out on May 2nd. It's a shame as so many of us are eager to meet you in person. If properly stored, your old ammo should be just fine. I found an old box of Winchester Western .41 Mag Ammo that shot extremely well, I'd say it was probably in the vicinity of 30 years old when I shot it. 686 is always a good gun to shoot.

Actually one of our best shoots the Gun Powder Pig Firearms Festival is scheduled on August 15th, this annual event features some great shooting plus roast pork. I extend an invitation to you now but will follow up with a PM with specifics as time draws near, it's a good thing you are available in August, as this is probably even a better event than our Trigger Break Out. One of the great things about Green Membership is that we do so many things in real time unlike other internet forums.

 

[Parker Duofold]

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Got the M1917 to the range yesterday and I ran about 30 rounds of surplus HXP ball ammo through it. It was pretty much dialed in already and I had no trouble hitting my 12" steel at 100 yards. The only problem was hitting the steel and knocking the target over after three or four rounds. I also fired some PPU new production 30-06. I put some skeet clays out against the berm and had no trouble blasting them either. Nice rifle and very good shooter!

 

[enbloc]

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