1911 technique

[Pilgrim]

I hope this is the right forum for this........

I have a 1911 and am planning on getting another this weekend. The new one will be one that I think I want to carry. I've been carrying a DA/SA S&W (decocked) for a long time and have a question about carrying the 1911.

I'm comfortable with C&L. With the thumb safety, grip safety and firing pin safety in this gun, I'm ok with one in the pipe and hammer back.

What concerns me is, under stress, having to deal with a very light trigger, unlike the DA/SA trigger I'm used to. Seems like it might be real easy to discharge under stress.

I read somewhere where it is advisable not to click the thumb safety off until you get ready to fire. Same with don't put the finger on the trigger until ready to fire. With that trigger finger motion and the motion of your thumb offing the safety, it seems:

1) you have a lot to think of in a high stress stituation

2) you're likely to move off target while moving your finger and thumb

It seems that if the safety is off'ed when presenting and the trigger finger is off the trigger until shooting, there's no problem, right?

What is the 'proper' method taught by the ones who know how to carry a 1911?

Yeah I know, practice practice practice.

 

[M1911]

I can't tell you the "proper" technique. I'll tell you how I do it. I've taken courses at LFI, Sigarms, and from Randy Cain. But I don't claim to be an "expert" by any stretch of the imagination -- I am low-speed high-drag and the only elephant I've seen was at the circus.

Carry is condition 1 -- cocked and locked. On the draw stroke, as the barrel passes through a 45 degree angle, I lower the safety. My finger is off the trigger. Once I'm on target and have decided to fire, then my finger is on the trigger. This could happen at the retention position if the target is close or at full extension. If I'm off target, say at low ready, my finger is off the trigger.

My recovery to the holster is a two-step procedure. First, I recover to the retention position -- gun is horizontal, against my right pectoral muscle. I then apply the safety, verify that my finger is off the trigger. Second, I move my right thumb to the back of the slide/hammer, then rotate the pistol down and reholster.

For me, when the gun is out of the holster, the safety is off. It goes back on just before I go into the holster.

YMMV.

 

[FPrice]

What is the 'proper' method taught by the ones who know how to carry a 1911?

Yeah I know, practice practice practice.

You just answered your own question. You have to learn the manual of arms (i.e., operating procedures) for a 1911-style pistol and then practise. A good way would be to use a 1911 for IPSC shooting. That is how I honed my skills with the big Colt pistol. IDPA may also be a good venue if they allow C&L carry.

I felt comfortable carrying a 1911 for self-defense because I understood how it worked and was confident in my skills. That is where you need to get to and some formal competition can be a good way to practise these skills.

 

[Pilgrim]

I felt comfortable carrying a 1911 for self-defense because I understood how it worked and was confident in my skills.

I understand how it works, I'm interested in the 'proper' or most common way people use it while being as safe and accurate as possible. Then I can practice practice practice

 

[Weerd Beard]

What model of 1911 are you going to carry, and how are you going to carry it?

Just curious

-Weer'd Beard

 

[M1911]

It seems that if the safety is off'ed when presenting and the trigger finger is off the trigger until shooting, there's no problem, right?

That's what I do. And my right thumb rides on top of the safety, except when reholstering.

In all of the classes that I've taken, the safety comes off during the draw stroke and stays off until you reholster. You don't then apply the safety during X, and take it off during Y. That may not be "correct", but that's how I've been taught.

 

[TonyD]

Pilgrim - I'm assuming this is a true 1911 style being SA only. The safest practicle condition to carry for self-defense is a round in the chamber, magazine topped off, hammer back and safety engaged. Most commonly known as "Condition One".

Your question of presentation is a littler deeper than most folks ever think about. First is the consideration that many will say to never present your weapon unless you fully intend on firing. If you go by this thought process, the point is moot.

However, I say there are many possiblities in which you may present your weapon before the decision to fire is made. The rule of thumb from my training is finger on the trigger for DA, finger off the trigger for SA. This wasn't a big deal since the most common choices were either a wheel gun (always DA) or a 1911 / Browning HP (always SA). Also was the amount of training we put in. I still stick with this process as a guideline.

It is my belief that if when you clear leather the safety comes off. In the case of the SA, the finger stays off until you intend to fire.

 

[Pilgrim]

What model of 1911 are you going to carry, and how are you going to carry it?

Just curious

-Weer'd Beard

A 1911sc S&W , IWB, cocked and locked. I've got no problem in that mode, it just takes a little different approach than the gun I'm used to.


thanks to all for your answers.

 

[TonyD]

Pilgrim - I've seen and shot a S&W (not sure of model) but not very familiar with it. The only safety I feel comfortable with in C&L is the traditional 1911 and the Browning HP (older ones). Is the Smith the same type? In comparison, I would not carry my HK C&L.

 

[FPrice]

Pilgrim - I've seen and shot a S&W (not sure of model) but not very familiar with it. The only safety I feel comfortable with in C&L is the traditional 1911 and the Browning HP (older ones). Is the Smith the same type? In comparison, I would not carry my HK C&L.

Tony,

I also have a S&W 1911sc. The safeties (slide and grip) and operation are exactly the same as the Colt 1911A1. I swore I would never get a S&W 1911 copy but after shooting this one I am a changed man.

 

[Pilgrim]

I haven't picked it up yet but what I've seen and read says that it is a true 1911. If not, it functions and feels just the same as a 1911.

The SW 1911 series is a VERY respected version...I've been waiting to get one for some time.

from the sw site

 

[M1911]

The only safety I feel comfortable with in C&L is the traditional 1911 and the Browning HP (older ones). Is the Smith the same type?

Depends upon which Smith you are talking about. The S&W 1911 is just another 1911. The S&W third generation guns have a slide-mounted safety/decocker that works like a Beretta 92 -- in other words, the safety works in the opposite direction as a 1911.

 

[TonyD]

Tony,

I also have a S&W 1911sc. The safeties (slide and grip) and operation are exactly the same as the Colt 1911A1. I swore I would never get a S&W 1911 copy but after shooting this one I am a changed man.

That's what I was wondering. My Browning was apparently the last of the Belium models where the safety locked in the slide like John Moses intended. After that it changed. Didn't know about the Smith's.

 

[TonyD]

Depends upon which Smith you are talking about. The S&W 1911 is just another 1911. The S&W third generation guns have a slide-mounted safety/decocker that works like a Beretta 92 -- in other words, the safety works in the opposite direction as a 1911.

No, not talking about the multi-generations that Smith has been trying to make an accepatable semi-auto. Just about the 1911 in which going retro seems to be the only way they can make a semi worth selling.

 

[Pilgrim]

This is the CS45 I carry now. It's one of the third generation guns that has been mentioned. The picture shows it decocked and safety off. It's a great gun.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Tony, I have/carry a S&W 1911. I replaced the trigger with a specialty design job (that is made for the Colt 1911). All the minor parts are standard 1911 parts. Great gun, same manual of arms as the original 1911.

 

[TonyD]

Len - It's not about the trigger, it's about the safety. Just like when Browning changed their design.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Tony,

I was responding to your question about the S&W 1911 and if it was a clone to the military 1911. I just couldn't remember the name of the trigger (ball bearings top and bottom) . . . the most important thing for me was that it was a short trigger for my small hands.

I agree with your other remark!

 

[Pilgrim]

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