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1911 Reliability Excuses

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taz-2005

taz-2005

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Just to stir the pot. [devil] for the record I have nothing against 1911s.

1911 Reliability Excuses | Modern Service Weapons

“This new factory gun is too tight, it needs to be broken in.” – Wow, if I had a dollar for every time I heard this one. No it doesn’t, especially if we are talking about mass produced factory guns with drop in fit barrels. Most of the time, this really just means that the gun was not built correctly and you are completing some of the final fitting by firing. Overly tight slide/frame/barrel fit, improper chamber finish, rough breech faces, etc. are better addressed on the bench than wasting precious time and expensive ammunition at the range. Break in will not fix many common deficiencies either, so don’t hope for the break in fairy to make a bad extractor or feedway suddenly become right.

“It needs more lube.” - Lube is good, but a clean, properly built 1911 with only a modicum of lube will work just fine. It is pretty common to see shooters blame mechanical shortfalls like feedway malfunctions or extractor failures on lack of lube, where the actual root of the issue has nothing to do with application of oil. Proper initial setup of the weapon is more critical than how much lube is slathered on the gun. Lube promotes good function and reduces wear, but it is not pixie dust.

“It was dirty.” - I see this a lot in online discussions where the gun in question has only 200-500 rounds on it. Through my research and experience, most of the malfunctions that users attribute to a dirty weapon are actually mechanical issues that have nothing to do with cleanliness. While every 1911 is going to have some threshold for its ideal maintenance state, most shooters tend to incorrectly attribute feedway issues and extractor problems to a dirty gun. The key here is to truly understand what the malfunctions are before dismissing them.

“This magazine was bad, I just use it for training.” – Not a good practice. If a magazine is bad, it needs to be retired. After the first malfunction, label the magazine as suspect. I like to put a big question mark on the tube with a magic marker, it is pretty easy to remember what that might mean. If and when it does it again, then it gets retired (the question mark gets replaced with a big X) – into the trash, eBay, whatever you want, as long as it is not back into your range bag. The excuse of “it’s just for training” is not valid, as additional malfunctions experienced during training only serve to undermine your confidence in the weapon and cloud its actual reliability record. Keep your inventory of magazines marked and numbered so that you can weed out defective units, and don’t be afraid to replace them regularly.
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I buy mid grade 1911's , not high end fancy ones. I have a Para , a smith , and a sig.
I don't have malfunctions , except when I don't throw away S&W magazines, they are junk IMO.
 
fubar said:
I buy mid grade 1911's , not high end fancy ones. I have a Para , a smith , and a sig.
I don't have malfunctions , except when I don't throw away S&W magazines, they are junk IMO.
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I'll take your S&W 1911 mags. Never had an issue with the one that came with my 1911PD.
 
Lots of Kimber hate (ahem, jealousy) on this forum. Never a malfunction on my Super Carry Pro however.

I did just break open into a multipack of ProMags I picked up awhile ago... we'll see how those work out. So far so good in manual slide racking though.
 
Hiltonizer said:
Lots of Kimber hate (ahem, jealousy) on this forum. Never a malfunction on my Super Carry Pro however.

I did just break open into a multipack of ProMags I picked up awhile ago... we'll see how those work out. So far so good in manual slide racking though.
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"cough" of course it wont fail when it only sits in the holster "cough"
 
taz-2005 said:
Just to stir the pot. [devil] for the record I have nothing against 1911s.

1911 Reliability Excuses | Modern Service Weapons
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A lot of the material referred to is just BS. Many top gunsmiths deliver their pistols to customers tight to be broken in. Some guns come from the factory tight and need a break in; this is not a bad thing. I would rather start with a tight gun and hope for a functional, closely fitted gun than start with a loose gun that will only loosen up more with use.

When breaking a gun in, I usually "over lube". There is nothing wrong with this and the extra lube helps tightly fitted guns break in. You just don't want to use this much lube (I prefer synthetic motor oil) on a regular basis. These "gurus" aren't as good as they would like you to believe.
 
I shoot several 1911's in Bullseye competition. The slide to frame fit is "snug" on purpose and I like to see oil on my hand when I am done shooting. With good magazines and ammo they run just about 100%. I don't carry one but not because they are not reliable.
 
marvelshooter said:
I shoot several 1911's in Bullseye competition. The slide to frame fit is "snug" on purpose and I like to see oil on my hand when I am done shooting. With good magazines and ammo they run just about 100%. I don't carry one but not because they are not reliable.
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Doesn't this kind of prove the authors point?
 
When I drop the kind of coin 1911 owners do, I want a reliable a gtg gun right out of the box. Period. I see people purchasing guns like Caspians or cylinder and slides for insane $$$, and then they are supposed to break them in? Screw that, I will stick with SIGs, or maybe even Glocks or CZs. I like the looks of the 1911, and there may or may not be a low shelf model in my future, but I will not buy a piece of a century old technology for 2 weeks worth of wages.

On a lighter note, about the old technology... Sounds kinda funny coming from a guy who rides a Harley. But hey, it's only hypocrisy if someone else is doing it, right?
 
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taz-2005 said:
Doesn't this kind of prove the authors point?
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If I were talking about a defensive or combat weapon yes. I am referring to a gun built specifically for target shooting. I am feeding it a SWC bullet that it was not designed for and loading it with a charge that is just powerful enough to cycle the gun. There is little room for lack of lubrication or dirt. If I wanted one for defensive use it would be looser fit and would be loaded a powerful FMJ round nose bullet just as John Moses Browning intended and I would expect it to be 100% reliable.
 
This is a good spot to interject the Gospel according to John Moses Browning......


ETA: said gospel

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JOHN (MOSES BROWNING)


1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain."


2 "And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."


3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.


4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it, and these profaners didst try and fit more rounds of ammunition into the magazines than the holy number of seven, appointed for the .45.


5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. a


6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.


7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.


8 And being a deceitful spirit, the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.


9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.


10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.


11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.


12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.




Sent from my phone....which isn't really a phone anymore, it's a computer on my pocket
 
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frenchman said:
When I drop the kind of coin 1911 owners do, I want a reliable a gtg gun right out of the box. Period. I see people purchasing guns like Caspians or cylinder and slides for insane $$$, and then they are supposed to break them in? Screw that, I will stick with SIGs, or maybe even Glocks or CZs. I like the looks of the 1911, and there may or may not be a low shelf model in my future, but I will not buy a piece of a century old technology for 2 weeks worth of wages.

On a lighter note, about the old technology... Sounds kinda funny coming from a guy who rides a Harley. But hey, it's only hypocrisy if someone else is doing it, right?
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Just buy a Sig 1911 [laugh]

My brother has a Sig 1911. Not a single malfunction either. He has probably put 400-500 rounds through it now.
 
soloman02 said:
Just buy a Sig 1911 [laugh]

My brother has a Sig 1911. Not a single malfunction either. He has probably put 400-500 rounds through it now.
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My Sig Scorpion has about 500 down the pipe (including 100 JHP), without a hiccup. Love that gun. Kinda looking forward to cooler weather so I can carry it regularly [smile]
 
The worst excuse I ALWAYS hear from 1911 owners is "this is crappy ammo".

All of you 1911 owners that say your 1911 is 100% reliable (LOL), are you counting the probably 1 malfunction per mag you attributed to "crappy ammo"? Also, are you one of those gun owners that puts maybe 50 rounds downrange per range trip? Go out and put 300+ rounds through your gun in one sitting without cleaning, and you will see your guns REAL reliability.

Why would I spend $1,000+ on a 1911 when I can spend HALF that on a Glock, and never have a malfunction. I have over 1,000 rounds through my Glock 23 without a single malfunction, even when using shitty ammo like Tulammo.
 
SR556, have you ever owned a 1911? ANY brand 1911?

I've shot 1,000's of any kind of ammo available thru my SW 1911pd (using SW mags) and my WW2 Ithaca 1911a1 and an Auto Ordnance version without ever having any issues. NONE. PERIOD.

Most people have the same experience.
 
SR556 said:
The worst excuse I ALWAYS hear from 1911 owners is "this is crappy ammo".

All of you 1911 owners that say your 1911 is 100% reliable (LOL), are you counting the probably 1 malfunction per mag you attributed to "crappy ammo"? Also, are you one of those gun owners that puts maybe 50 rounds downrange per range trip? Go out and put 300+ rounds through your gun in one sitting without cleaning, and you will see your guns REAL reliability.

Why would I spend $1,000+ on a 1911 when I can spend HALF that on a Glock, and never have a malfunction. I have over 1,000 rounds through my Glock 23 without a single malfunction, even when using shitty ammo like Tulammo.
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Let's see....The 500 rounds I've put through my Scorpion were in 2 sessions. I shot 100 FMJ, and 50 JHP on the first trip after I cleaned and lubed it. A couple of weeks later I put 300 rounds of mixed (CCI Blazer, some Tulammo, and Fiocchi) FMJ, and another 50 JHP, again without a hiccup. I would call your argument invalid.
There is no mechanical thing that is 100% reliable, but as far as my EDC SR9C, and my occasional carry Scorpion, I am satisfied with the reliabilty I have. As for the SR9C, I have put 500 round afternoons through that gun, not cleaned it and shot another 200 the next day....no issues.....I love that gun!
 
I have a couple handful of 1911s and additional 45 acps. On 2 of the 1911, the operator manual said not to disassemble for the first 500 rounds. On all my 45s, I do have problems running reloads. The gun fires fine, but only 2, a RIA and a SW1911ta will do these reloads fine. The rest, including a SW e series will not eject the reloads I shot. For my usp, I have to put the front of the pistol on the bench and put all my weight on the pistol to get the slide to come back.
 
GunGrey said:
Lol at people who think 500-1k worth of ammo is any bench mark for reliability.
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For an uncleaned 1911 it is. [laugh] Most of them will start to choke up around ~400-500 or so without a good clean and lube at that point, or at least a half assed job with a boresnake.... course some of it depends on the ammo, the shooter, magazines used, and how clean they are, etc, etc, ad nauseam. I've seen some guns get 1000+ too, but it seems to vary wildly.

-Mike
 
GunGrey said:
Lol at people who think 500-1k worth of ammo is any bench mark for reliability.
Click to expand...

I've run over 5000 rounds through my 1911 and it's still going strong. I changed the frame on it at about 5000 rounds, since I wanted the weight of steel instead of the aluminum alloy (might build another pistol on that frame).

IMO, people picking up a low-end/cheap 1911 are getting exactly what they're paying for. A cheap POS pistol. Would you buy a Geo and expect it to be as reliable as a BMW?

I really don't remember how much my Para cost me when I bought it (~20 years ago), or how much I've put into it (getting it tuned for competition shooting). I will say that the only issues I've had with it were due to errors I made when reloading ammo for it. Or something I did that I shouldn't have (easily corrected). I've not had feed or eject issues with the pistol. It gladly goes through whatever (factory ammo) I put into a mag.

I've fired the pistol in the cold of winter, and heat of summer (in FL too) without issue. I would clean it after each day of shooting, which could be a 200-400 rounds (depending on the courses).

IF I had a pistol that wouldn't take the same ammo as others (of the same caliber), even if it was reloads, I'd find out why. IMO that's an issue that should not exist. Living with it is just wrong. Either your reloads are far enough out of spec to not work properly, or the pistols are too far out of spec to work with them.
 
My old $1100 S&W 1911 would jam one time out of ten with S&W mags. Never a problem with Wilson Combat mags.

My $600 Ruger SR1911 would eat anything all day long, without a single malfunction ever.

That said, I carry a Glock. I've tried to break the thing and I can't do it. :)
 
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