1907 sling use, frogs out vs frogs in

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I recently sprung for a good quality leather 1907 sling. After looking for instructions on how to install and use online, I came across what seems to be a minor split among the shooting public on which way the sling should be used for competition.

The CMP has instructions on the traditional way, in which the flat sides of the frogs face away from the rifle. The two keepers are on opposite sides of the upper frog when making the arm loop. The loop it tightened by hand and doesn't seem to get any tighter from sling tension holding the rifle.

However, lots of shooters online seem to prefer the opposite. The frogs face towards the rifle, and both keepers are on the lower strap of the loop. Sling tension holding the rifle seems to tighten the loop in this configuration, resulting in a very tight arm loop.

I am new to using the 1907 sling and am curious why one would prefer one over the other. What reason would one use one or the other? I am not really interested in what is considered historically "correct", but rather what provides maximum stability.

Advice much appreciated!
 

mac1911

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I recently sprung for a good quality leather 1907 sling. After looking for instructions on how to install and use online, I came across what seems to be a minor split among the shooting public on which way the sling should be used for competition.

The CMP has instructions on the traditional way, in which the flat sides of the frogs face away from the rifle. The two keepers are on opposite sides of the upper frog when making the arm loop. The loop it tightened by hand and doesn't seem to get any tighter from sling tension holding the rifle.

However, lots of shooters online seem to prefer the opposite. The frogs face towards the rifle, and both keepers are on the lower strap of the loop. Sling tension holding the rifle seems to tighten the loop in this configuration, resulting in a very tight arm loop.

I am new to using the 1907 sling and am curious why one would prefer one over the other. What reason would one use one or the other? I am not really interested in what is considered historically "correct", but rather what provides maximum stability.

Advice much appreciated!
try both ways and see what you like?
 

Picton

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Holy jeez. Look at that thing.

It’s times like this that I’m glad my milsurp tastes run toward the Brits. Ain’t no need for a sling to be quite that complicated.
 

mac1911

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mac1911

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I recently sprung for a good quality leather 1907 sling. After looking for instructions on how to install and use online, I came across what seems to be a minor split among the shooting public on which way the sling should be used for competition.

The CMP has instructions on the traditional way, in which the flat sides of the frogs face away from the rifle. The two keepers are on opposite sides of the upper frog when making the arm loop. The loop it tightened by hand and doesn't seem to get any tighter from sling tension holding the rifle.

However, lots of shooters online seem to prefer the opposite. The frogs face towards the rifle, and both keepers are on the lower strap of the loop. Sling tension holding the rifle seems to tighten the loop in this configuration, resulting in a very tight arm loop.

I am new to using the 1907 sling and am curious why one would prefer one over the other. What reason would one use one or the other? I am not really interested in what is considered historically "correct", but rather what provides maximum stability.

Advice much appreciated!
which way did you go
 

Mountain

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Frogs in. There's a good YouTube video on this, sorry don't have the link.

Can you make one of the Old Colony matches? You'll get some good tips.
 

Mountain

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Frogs in. There's a good YouTube video on this, sorry don't have the link.

Can you make one of the Old Colony matches? You'll get some good tips.
Whoops, somehow didn't the newer posts. Pat McD posted the video.
 

daekken

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Holy jeez. Look at that thing.

It’s times like this that I’m glad my milsurp tastes run toward the Brits. Ain’t no need for a sling to be quite that complicated.
Just for that, I'm considering putting a 1907 on my No 4 Mk I* ...the swivels are wide enough.

Jokes aside, a properly configured 1907 is the most stable shooting position I have ever used.
I know mac touts putting a sandbag for additional support--haven't tried that.

At the Appleseed I did in April I believe I was the only shooter looping up although it was a USGI websling, not a 1907.

Somedays I'm still not sure I'm even looping it up correctly without Franco's assistance [rofl].

The sling majspud provided for my Mauser works quite well when shooting offhand, I can hit the plates pretty reliably using it "hasty" style.

I deliberately omitted swivels on my FAL...if it ever gets back from the builder.
 

Picton

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Just for that, I'm considering putting a 1907 on my No 4 Mk I* ...the swivels are wide enough.

Jokes aside, a properly configured 1907 is the most stable shooting position I have ever used.
I know mac touts putting a sandbag for additional support--haven't tried that.

At the Appleseed I did in April I believe I was the only shooter looping up although it was a USGI websling, not a 1907.

Somedays I'm still not sure I'm even looping it up correctly without Franco's assistance [rofl].

The sling majspud provided for my Mauser works quite well when shooting offhand, I can hit the plates pretty reliably using it "hasty" style.

I deliberately omitted swivels on my FAL...if it ever gets back from the builder.
I know I need to broaden my horizons a bit, probably. I was in an army unit that heavily discouraged slings, so I spent all my formative shooting years learning how to do without them. I’ve never seen them as a marksmanship aid, just as something to use for, well, slinging them.
 

daekken

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I know I need to broaden my horizons a bit, probably. I was in an army unit that heavily discouraged slings, so I spent all my formative shooting years learning how to do without them. I’ve never seen them as a marksmanship aid, just as something to use for, well, slinging them.
Some on here will probably have more detailed info, but the US is the only country I am aware of that has used them as shooting supports, at least in the 20th Century and later (in terms of actually offering some training or doctrine--like the WW2 video for the M1). Hell, Rhodesian FALs frequently removed the swivels entirely. For instance here, the front one's definitely gone and it looks like the rear one is as well:
1575405904300.png

Granted they are only one example and the fact that, as far as I know, soldiers were trained to keep them in their hands during sweeps (as the terrain often resulted in contact occurring at incredibly close distances requiring the rifle to be brought to bear as quickly as possible), but I am not aware of any other examples of "sling as shooting aid" apart from the US.

Back when I had Q&A privileges with Forgotten Weapons I asked Ian about sling use a few times, but it was never selected as a question for one of videos, that I am aware of.
 

mac1911

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Just for that, I'm considering putting a 1907 on my No 4 Mk I* ...the swivels are wide enough.

Jokes aside, a properly configured 1907 is the most stable shooting position I have ever used.
I know mac touts putting a sandbag for additional support--haven't tried that.

At the Appleseed I did in April I believe I was the only shooter looping up although it was a USGI websling, not a 1907.

Somedays I'm still not sure I'm even looping it up correctly without Franco's assistance [rofl].

The sling majspud provided for my Mauser works quite well when shooting offhand, I can hit the plates pretty reliably using it "hasty" style.

I deliberately omitted swivels on my FAL...if it ever gets back from the builder.
You must have missed my 1907 sling on my Enfield last CMP Vintage Mil. Works great.
My sandbag tip is for use with a sling while testing loads and getting a decent zero.
The loop sling 1907/web sling will give you much better stability Prone and sitting , i dont really see any difference standing with Hasty Sling style. i actually feel its harder doing a hasty sling standing(not that its legal for NrA/CMP)
When i was young my dad seen me trying the hasty sling and just said, that deer can walk away faster than you get into that sling ,
 

daekken

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I imagine it would work well, my swivels would be perfectly aligned for it.

I know sling use is no good for CMP matches but when practicing offhand it definitely helps for me, even though I was skeptical at first.
 

Mountain

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Ended up going frogs in, seemed to stay tight a bit better, though I found either way were both fine. Frogs out is a prettier presentation, but I only use this sling for match shooting anyway.
👍

Another tip is to have the spot where the sling is joined together by the keepers positioned high and around the side of your upper arm. When you cinch it tight, it should still be on the side of your arm, not directly facing the sling loop / swivel. This keeps it tighter for a longer time, especially during rapids. Tip given to me by Nick Till, CMP's top sponsored shooter and top civilian winner of the National Trophy match at Perry this year.


I know sling use is no good for CMP matches but when practicing offhand it definitely helps for me, even though I was skeptical at first.
Huh? I must be reading this out of context? Yeah, whenever you come to OCSA matches please don't use your sling. ;)
 

daekken

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Huh? I must be reading this out of context? Yeah, whenever you come to OCSA matches please don't use your sling. ;)
Yes, the context was that I like hasty sling when shooting offhand, and sling use for offhand is a no go.

Although the time I shot the SKS at OCSA, the sling was basically useless anyway for prone.
 

Mountain

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Yes, the context was that I like hasty sling when shooting offhand, and sling use for offhand is a no go.

Although the time I shot the SKS at OCSA, the sling was basically useless anyway for prone.

Gotcha.

Hey, my brother has (had? He's in CA) a SKS that would out-shoot my Colt H-bar. Only thing that H-bar was good for was a hefty profit when I sold it during the national ban.
 
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