All I did was Google "Gibbs 1903 Rifle" and "Gibbs 1903 Rifle review" and read some of those posts.
There are some people who are happy: did you get the replacement yet?
There are some people who are happy: did you get the replacement yet?
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1903A4 Gibbs Rilfe
- Thread starter 50 BMG
- Start date
Yep, got it and its beautiful. The stock is pristine, brand new barrel, scope is clear and looks period correct. The receiver and all other parts have been parkerized. Its a fine looking rifle. Far better on my wallet than an original at 4K
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
. I will post some pics as soon as I can get to the range. I have not been to the range since the MFG shoot![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
Hand grenades sold to you
If you need photo evidence ping me at [email protected].
Do not shoot the mangie critter
Wildcat said
I just had a talk with my seller the ATF found out the guns were being restored and made them destroy the rest. Hope you don’t have a visit.
Response: This is not true I contacted ATF’s chief technical officer in Virginia and he sais they have no authority to regulate the authority of reactivated firearms.![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
50BMG said
The company states they bought the receivers from CMP. Each rifle has its own serial number which is new, not C+R eligible.
They purchased on a special deal from Orest Michaels at CMP 100’s of old drill rifles. If you look at the advertisements and pictures on gun broker by their various distributors you will see that they retain their original serial numbers.[sad2]
Since you got a replacement contrary to the advice from everyone be advised of the following.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
The Problem Statement : There is a company in West Virginia called Navy Arms http://www.navyarms.com they are the parent company of two other companies Gibbs Rifle Company http://www.gibbsrifle.com/ and Old Western Scrounger http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/. And a company on long island Orion 7 enterprises. All save for the last are owned by Forgett Militaria, LLC.
This these people are selling and distributing firearms which have been created from reactivating deactivated “Springfield 03” firearms. These firearms are deactivated my having the barrels welded to the receivers or actions, having the cut off switch welded on the receiver and welding a rod in the barrel in the chamber.
The welds were made with stainless welding rod the receivers are carbon steel. Little or no heat/process control was used and certified welders did not accomplish the work. Especially critical is the weld where the barrel was welded to the forward receiver RING. No controls were in place to control heat effected zones and I can say to you with authority that everyone I have looked at has had the heat treatment of the forward portion of the ring breached by this process. I have now examined 37. Attached are some images where we etched the weld and you can see the Weld material extends greater than 50 % through the ring. The heat effected zone extends 100% of the thickness of the ring. Further look at the weld porosity. One of these images should shows extensive pitting and gas inclusions.
Other Rifle Welding Examples
M1 Garand rifles were not welded on the forward ring, they were welded on the back soft portion of the receiver. Secondly, the heat effected welded area was re heat treated after the welding to stop the seventh round fail to feed problem. The Seventh Round stoppage repair for the first 50,000 or so were made to the bullet guide channels on the rear of the receiver. I have 5604, 1064 and 20295 here on the desk in the office you can see the repairs in the discolored Parkerizing. These receivers were then run through the heat treating process a second time at Springfield Arsenal, Springfield, Mass. These were made during a large factory recall and few of these receivers escaped the recall. So the assertion that receiver rings were ever welded on this model rifle on cannot be made.
Modifications to bolts of Springfield 03 and 03A3 rifles are made all of the time at the rear of the bolt and with huge copper heat sinks stuck in the hollow bolt bodies to protect the metallurgical integrity of the bolt face and bolt lugs. I have one here whose face blown off I found at a gun show in junk that was not accomplished correctly
Demilled M-1 Garand’s are not welded on the rings but about 3 inches back for m the face of the receiver. There plenty of written document resources that state never fire one of these. It is universally agreed these should not be fired under any circumstances.
Col EC Crossman has extensive commentary on the early 03 failures due to heat treatment issues in his book. He looked at about 3 dozen failures. There is a great concern/prediction that quite soon one of these reactivated rifles will blow up and injure someone. I personally contacted Ed Flynn of Rock Island Arsenal in Moline Illinois told me on the phone last week at 3:30 am PDT when he called me back, I get a real chuckle out of that, that in his opinion I was correct in saying none of these rifles should NEVER be fired again. Mr. Flynn is the chief science and technology officer there for military small arms.
Next I contacted Orest Michaels of the Civilian Marksmanship Program at Anniston Alabama a government owned corporation and he has agreed in writing and will place a notice on their web pages identifying the defect and that the Rifles should never be shot again. Further he stated that all deactivated drill rifles came with a disclaimer that stated that all of the drill rifles sold by CMP
I am writing you because this whole scheme of reactivation of these rifles in inherently dangerous and because these rifles in these described conditions have been sold in your states.
I personally am concerned because it is hard to tell if you are shooting near someone in competition if one of these explosive devices is present or not.
You can tell if you’re shooting next to someone who has one of these hand grenades by the staining on the Parkerizing at the cutoff switch sometimes. There two differing crystal structures present and they discolor differently. The other way is to separate the metal from the stock and look on the bottom of the ring for weld marks or grinder marks. If this was re parkerized, a phosphate coating, there is a stain there. I would suggest to any sponsoring organization that any Springfield, Remington, Rock Island or Smith Corona 03 0r 03A3 or 03A4 rifles be gone over with a fine tooth comb to determine if they were reactivated especially ones from Navy Arms, Old Western Scrounger, Gibbs Rifles or Orion 7 enterprises.
What I want you to do. Help prevent someone getting hurt. ATF and SAMMI have no jurisdiction or regulatory authority because it is not illegal to reactivate firearms. The Consumer Product Safety Commission has no authority over firearms safety. The industry is supposed to be self regulating.
So please help get the word out before someone gets seriously gets hurt
Thanking you all in advance![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Notice the weld bead at the bottom of the front ring and that the receiver has been faced off
Notice the cut off switch has been reactivated by reaching the welded area here. Feel free to pass this on to whom ever
Michael Macky Phd Metalurgical Science![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
References:
Orest Michaels [[email protected]]
[email protected]
Director of Science and Engineering Rock Island
309-782-7924
Paul Briggs Manager of Shop Rock Island
309-782-3592
JMTC 309-782-6854 Rock Island
Safety Office 309-782-1380 Rock Island
309-782-6116
309-782-0104
If you need photo evidence ping me at [email protected].
Do not shoot the mangie critter
Wildcat said
I just had a talk with my seller the ATF found out the guns were being restored and made them destroy the rest. Hope you don’t have a visit.
Response: This is not true I contacted ATF’s chief technical officer in Virginia and he sais they have no authority to regulate the authority of reactivated firearms.
50BMG said
The company states they bought the receivers from CMP. Each rifle has its own serial number which is new, not C+R eligible.
They purchased on a special deal from Orest Michaels at CMP 100’s of old drill rifles. If you look at the advertisements and pictures on gun broker by their various distributors you will see that they retain their original serial numbers.[sad2]
Since you got a replacement contrary to the advice from everyone be advised of the following.
The Problem Statement : There is a company in West Virginia called Navy Arms http://www.navyarms.com they are the parent company of two other companies Gibbs Rifle Company http://www.gibbsrifle.com/ and Old Western Scrounger http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/. And a company on long island Orion 7 enterprises. All save for the last are owned by Forgett Militaria, LLC.
This these people are selling and distributing firearms which have been created from reactivating deactivated “Springfield 03” firearms. These firearms are deactivated my having the barrels welded to the receivers or actions, having the cut off switch welded on the receiver and welding a rod in the barrel in the chamber.
The welds were made with stainless welding rod the receivers are carbon steel. Little or no heat/process control was used and certified welders did not accomplish the work. Especially critical is the weld where the barrel was welded to the forward receiver RING. No controls were in place to control heat effected zones and I can say to you with authority that everyone I have looked at has had the heat treatment of the forward portion of the ring breached by this process. I have now examined 37. Attached are some images where we etched the weld and you can see the Weld material extends greater than 50 % through the ring. The heat effected zone extends 100% of the thickness of the ring. Further look at the weld porosity. One of these images should shows extensive pitting and gas inclusions.
Other Rifle Welding Examples
M1 Garand rifles were not welded on the forward ring, they were welded on the back soft portion of the receiver. Secondly, the heat effected welded area was re heat treated after the welding to stop the seventh round fail to feed problem. The Seventh Round stoppage repair for the first 50,000 or so were made to the bullet guide channels on the rear of the receiver. I have 5604, 1064 and 20295 here on the desk in the office you can see the repairs in the discolored Parkerizing. These receivers were then run through the heat treating process a second time at Springfield Arsenal, Springfield, Mass. These were made during a large factory recall and few of these receivers escaped the recall. So the assertion that receiver rings were ever welded on this model rifle on cannot be made.
Modifications to bolts of Springfield 03 and 03A3 rifles are made all of the time at the rear of the bolt and with huge copper heat sinks stuck in the hollow bolt bodies to protect the metallurgical integrity of the bolt face and bolt lugs. I have one here whose face blown off I found at a gun show in junk that was not accomplished correctly
Demilled M-1 Garand’s are not welded on the rings but about 3 inches back for m the face of the receiver. There plenty of written document resources that state never fire one of these. It is universally agreed these should not be fired under any circumstances.
Col EC Crossman has extensive commentary on the early 03 failures due to heat treatment issues in his book. He looked at about 3 dozen failures. There is a great concern/prediction that quite soon one of these reactivated rifles will blow up and injure someone. I personally contacted Ed Flynn of Rock Island Arsenal in Moline Illinois told me on the phone last week at 3:30 am PDT when he called me back, I get a real chuckle out of that, that in his opinion I was correct in saying none of these rifles should NEVER be fired again. Mr. Flynn is the chief science and technology officer there for military small arms.
Next I contacted Orest Michaels of the Civilian Marksmanship Program at Anniston Alabama a government owned corporation and he has agreed in writing and will place a notice on their web pages identifying the defect and that the Rifles should never be shot again. Further he stated that all deactivated drill rifles came with a disclaimer that stated that all of the drill rifles sold by CMP
I am writing you because this whole scheme of reactivation of these rifles in inherently dangerous and because these rifles in these described conditions have been sold in your states.
I personally am concerned because it is hard to tell if you are shooting near someone in competition if one of these explosive devices is present or not.
You can tell if you’re shooting next to someone who has one of these hand grenades by the staining on the Parkerizing at the cutoff switch sometimes. There two differing crystal structures present and they discolor differently. The other way is to separate the metal from the stock and look on the bottom of the ring for weld marks or grinder marks. If this was re parkerized, a phosphate coating, there is a stain there. I would suggest to any sponsoring organization that any Springfield, Remington, Rock Island or Smith Corona 03 0r 03A3 or 03A4 rifles be gone over with a fine tooth comb to determine if they were reactivated especially ones from Navy Arms, Old Western Scrounger, Gibbs Rifles or Orion 7 enterprises.
What I want you to do. Help prevent someone getting hurt. ATF and SAMMI have no jurisdiction or regulatory authority because it is not illegal to reactivate firearms. The Consumer Product Safety Commission has no authority over firearms safety. The industry is supposed to be self regulating.
So please help get the word out before someone gets seriously gets hurt
Thanking you all in advance
Notice the weld bead at the bottom of the front ring and that the receiver has been faced off
Notice the cut off switch has been reactivated by reaching the welded area here. Feel free to pass this on to whom ever
Michael Macky Phd Metalurgical Science
References:
Orest Michaels [[email protected]]
[email protected]
Director of Science and Engineering Rock Island
309-782-7924
Paul Briggs Manager of Shop Rock Island
309-782-3592
JMTC 309-782-6854 Rock Island
Safety Office 309-782-1380 Rock Island
309-782-6116
309-782-0104
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
Thanks for the article and information.
After examination of the rifle I own I did not see any of the visible signs that appear in this article.
I did take this rifle to the range and it prints from a bench rest quarter sized groups at 100 yards using CMP ammo. After 200 rounds I have had no signs of stress fractures and or malfunctions regarding feeding or ejecting the spent round.
I also had the rifle checked by a gunsmith who examined the chamber, head space and the receiver condition. Result, good to go.
You also reference the poor heat treating of some 1903 rifle receivers. This was well known and published with the dangerous serial number ranges. ( my rifle does not fall into that range).
Do you have a direct quote that states the Gibbs rifles are at issue or just the info regarding the poor heat treating of the receivers when they were originally made.
Maybe I am one of the lucky ones....and got a keeper.
Also many issues back Shotgun news dedicated three issues to the re activation 1903 and 1903A3 drill rifles. They too make a point to state do not use the serial number receivers in question.
"Modifications to bolts of Springfield 03 and 03A3 rifles are made all of the time at the rear of the bolt and with huge copper heat sinks stuck in the hollow bolt bodies to protect the metallurgical integrity of the bolt face and bolt lugs. I have one here whose face blown off I found at a gun show in junk that was not accomplished correctly"
The bolts one the Gibbs rifle are not the welded bolts from the drill rifles. Sportsman's guide has complete 1903/1903A3 bolts for 39 bucks. Still in grease. Complete bots are not that hard to find complete. In fact CMP has them at their stores for public purchase.
Thanks again for the info.
After examination of the rifle I own I did not see any of the visible signs that appear in this article.
I did take this rifle to the range and it prints from a bench rest quarter sized groups at 100 yards using CMP ammo. After 200 rounds I have had no signs of stress fractures and or malfunctions regarding feeding or ejecting the spent round.
I also had the rifle checked by a gunsmith who examined the chamber, head space and the receiver condition. Result, good to go.
You also reference the poor heat treating of some 1903 rifle receivers. This was well known and published with the dangerous serial number ranges. ( my rifle does not fall into that range).
Do you have a direct quote that states the Gibbs rifles are at issue or just the info regarding the poor heat treating of the receivers when they were originally made.
Maybe I am one of the lucky ones....and got a keeper.
Also many issues back Shotgun news dedicated three issues to the re activation 1903 and 1903A3 drill rifles. They too make a point to state do not use the serial number receivers in question.
"Modifications to bolts of Springfield 03 and 03A3 rifles are made all of the time at the rear of the bolt and with huge copper heat sinks stuck in the hollow bolt bodies to protect the metallurgical integrity of the bolt face and bolt lugs. I have one here whose face blown off I found at a gun show in junk that was not accomplished correctly"
The bolts one the Gibbs rifle are not the welded bolts from the drill rifles. Sportsman's guide has complete 1903/1903A3 bolts for 39 bucks. Still in grease. Complete bots are not that hard to find complete. In fact CMP has them at their stores for public purchase.
Thanks again for the info.
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Sorry, I do not post pictures of my firearms. You can see it at the MFG shoot if you like.
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Ohh, no problem. I thought you might have from reading this old post.
Why? I post pics of mine.
Sorry Fred... had to capitalize on that typo.
Got me on that one Ray...
As to posting pictures. I stopped posting because I really don't need everyone one on the web to see what I own. If folks I know and are interested and want to see any of my firearms, or for that matter shoot them, all they have to do is meet me at a NES shoot.
meth0d maybe you should consider becoming a NES green member and attend a NES shoot. You would enjoy it.
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info correction
"This these people are selling and distributing firearms which have been created from reactivating deactivated “Springfield 03” firearms. These firearms are deactivated my having the barrels welded to the receivers or actions, having the cut off switch welded on the receiver and welding a rod in the barrel in the chamber"
WRONG info!!
The Gibbs rifles were not parade or de activated rifles, Quote from Surplus Rifles magazine,annual issue,
" Gibbs M1903A4 is made using original Remington World War 2 actions and turned down bolts which Gibbs acquired when it bought the rifle division of Parker Hale the 1990's."
The actions they received from CMP were not parade rifles but actions ONLY. So using info about the rifles that were welded to de activate them is true, however it has NO relation to the rifles Gibbs has sold.
Also, I usually don't take advise from a person with a post count of 1.
"This these people are selling and distributing firearms which have been created from reactivating deactivated “Springfield 03” firearms. These firearms are deactivated my having the barrels welded to the receivers or actions, having the cut off switch welded on the receiver and welding a rod in the barrel in the chamber"
WRONG info!!
The Gibbs rifles were not parade or de activated rifles, Quote from Surplus Rifles magazine,annual issue,
" Gibbs M1903A4 is made using original Remington World War 2 actions and turned down bolts which Gibbs acquired when it bought the rifle division of Parker Hale the 1990's."
The actions they received from CMP were not parade rifles but actions ONLY. So using info about the rifles that were welded to de activate them is true, however it has NO relation to the rifles Gibbs has sold.
Also, I usually don't take advise from a person with a post count of 1.
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