16” Carbine H3/H2 Buffer?...

[DW357]

I’m somewhat of an AR15 noob as I built/assembled my first (and only) AR15 in late 2015 and didn’t know much about buffers and gas systems when I was building mine. So forgive my ignorance...

I got a complete 16” upper with a carbine length gas system, standard carbine (3 oz) buffer, and Aimsurplus NiB BCG.

I haven’t shot it much but just shot it on Sunday for the first time in awhile. Might have 1000 rounds through it at this point.

Anyway, the felt recoil seems a bit harsh and I noticed my brass is ejecting about 6-8 feet in the 1-2 o’clock position (using Wolf gold 223). I did some reading and it sounds like you want brass to eject in the 3-4 o’clock position just a few feet away? I realize it’s a carbine gas system so it’s not going to be ultra smooth like a rifle length system.

So my question is, would I be better served using a H3 or H2 buffer to slow down the action and felt recoil? Wolf gold is loaded pretty warm from what I understand and that’s all I plan to shoot FWIW. Thanks in advance.

 

[DW357]

So I ordered a spikes tactical H3 heavy buffer and a JP enterprises extra power buffer spring to try out. Only $60 shipped so I figured it’s cheap enough to try.

 

[mac1911]

You can take the weights out if buffers also to play around with the results. Remove the pin holding the plastic tip on the end. I'm going to gander you have a standard 3.0 oz -ish carbine buffer.
IMHO you will be better served with adjustable gas block.
I'm not completely sold on ejection patterns to diag gas system. I ran cast loads the ejected the brass forward. Although I no longer have a carbine system my next test with reduced loads will see how low I can go with a mil spec buffer system in my A2

 

[DW357]

You can take the weights out if buffers also to play around with the results. Remove the pin holding the plastic tip on the end. I'm going to gander you have a standard 3.0 oz -ish carbine buffer.
IMHO you will be better served with adjustable gas block.
I'm not completely sold on ejection patterns to diag gas system. I ran cast loads the ejected the brass forward. Although I no longer have a carbine system my next test with reduced loads will see how low I can go with a mil spec buffer system in my A2

Yes 3oz buffer.
I briefly read about adjustable gas blocks but can’t say I know much about them. I’ll have to do more research on them.

 

[DW357]

Just dawned on me that my PWS FSC muzzle brake is pinned/welded so there’s no way to replace the gas block unless I destroy the $100 muzzle brake to get it off....

I’ll have to pass on that and try out the heavy buffer and buffer spring.

 

[mac1911]

Just dawned on me that my PWS FSC muzzle brake is pinned/welded so there’s no way to replace the gas block unless I destroy the $100 muzzle brake to get it off....

I’ll have to pass on that and try out the heavy buffer and buffer spring.

may not be worth the effort but you could cut the the current gas block and install a split 2 piece adjustble gas block

 

[DW357]

may not be worth the effort but you could cut the the current gas block and install a split 2 piece adjustble gas block

Yeah I saw that too. Prob not worth it.

I’ll play around with the buffer and spring. Like you said, I can play around with the weights between my 3oz buffer and my 5.4oz buffer.

 

[1903Collector]

What you consider harsh may be normal if your not having any other issues. I had one build where the recoil impulse was very snappy, and it was chewing up my brass as it was trying to unlock to soon. I never disassembled it to confirm but I suspect the gas port was probably to big. I think I ended up using an H2 or H3 buffer to slow it down, she runs just fine now.

 

[mac1911]

What you consider harsh may be normal if your not having any other issues. I had one build where the recoil impulse was very snappy, and it was chewing up my brass as it was trying to unlock to soon. I never disassembled it to confirm but I suspect the gas port was probably to big. I think I ended up using an H2 or H3 buffer to slow it down, she runs just fine now.

Better symptom of issues if the brass is getting beat up.
Its a balancing act for the AR in civilian use. Mil spec wants that brass in and out. Recoil is not a issue nor wear as weapon will be inspected for the most part before any failure, well you hope.

 

[SJan]

Installing an adjustable gas block at this point is not worth the trouble. A clamp on gas block is never something I would suggest. A heavier recipricating mass will change where your brass lands, but may make for more perceived recoil.

In my opinion, if the rifle runs, don't screw with it.

 

[DW357]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Yeah it runs 100% with Wolf gold and my reloads so messing around with it probably isn’t necessary - just enjoy as you said.

I just figured for $60 I can play around with the buffer weights and springs. If it makes it worse then I’m only out $60.

 

[TomMontana]

H3 and JP spring is like 9mm blow back territory. If the H3 doesn't work well, then like mac1911 mentioned, you can take one of the H3's tungsten weights and exchange it with one of the steel weights form the carbine buffer. Now you have a H and H2 buffer to test out.

 

[DW357]

H3 and JP spring is like 9mm blow back territory. If the H3 doesn't work well, then like mac1911 mentioned, you can take one of the H3's tungsten weights and exchange it with one of the steel weights form the carbine buffer. Now you have a H and H2 buffer to test out.

Sounds like a plan. I’ll report back once I get the parts and have a chance to shoot it - assuming we get some weather near freezing lol

 

[jayhitek]

I just went through something similar. I had to go to a 3oz buffer and 10" spring before mine started running properly.

 

[mac1911]

One of the old ret USMC amorer once said this about ejection pattern. " if the brass comes out that's a good pattern"
I advise you try to hunt down some old time Armorers especially those that where in for a long time.
I'm luck to know 2 that learned on the M14 where there for the introduction of the M16 and retired in the 80s great source of info. Also lucky to know a guy who was a engineer working at Aberdeen testing grounds and has binders full of TMs updates , technical data great source if you can pin him down.

 

[Warm_Garand]

The price of H/H2/H3 buffers is ridiculous.

Buy the tungsten weights, and make them up yourself.

The weights cost $7.50 apiece.

KAK BUFFER WEIGHT - TUNGSTEN

 

[mac1911]

The price of H/H2/H3 buffers is ridiculous.

Buy the tungsten weights, and make them up yourself.

The weights cost $7.50 apiece.

KAK BUFFER WEIGHT - TUNGSTEN

At least now he can have 2 modified buffers for different loads.
I have not had a carbine length upper for a few years now but my RRA H2 ran fine with a A2 lower. The heavy buffers are good if they will run. Ever wonder why the A2 system does not have so many options as the M4 in buffer weights?

 

[SJan]

Ever wonder why the A2 system does not have so many options as the M4 in buffer weights?

-because it was designed to operate in conjunction with a 20" barrel and rifle length gas tube. It's all about dwell time, the time it takes for the bullet to travel from the gas port to the muzzle.

The milspec M4, with 14.5" barrel and carbine length gas tube has damn near close to the same dwell time as the A2 described above.

The commercial 'M4' with 16" barrel, and non-standardized gas port size accross manufacturers, is why there buffer weight options are available and sometimes necessary.