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15 year old with FID - but cannot own long gun?

Your dealer is close.

Federal law prohibits persons under 18 from procuring any firearm from a licensed dealer (under 21 for handguns). Private sales are allowed, as is possession.
 
That makes no sense to me. But that doesn't mean it is not the case because this is Mass. My oldest is 15 in two years and on her birthday we are putting in the application for her FID. I thought like you that they could own non-large capacity rifles and or shotguns.

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Rob Boudrie said:
Your dealer is close.

Federal law prohibits persons under 18 from procuring any firearm from a licensed dealer (under 21 for handguns). Private sales are allowed, as is possession.
Click to expand...

So dad can buy and FA-10 it over to child? or is that a straw purchase?
 
robjax said:
That makes no sense to me. But that doesn't mean it is not the case because this is Mass. My oldest is 15 in two years and on her birthday we are putting in the application for her FID. I thought like you that they could own non-large capacity rifles and or shotguns.

- - - Updated - - -



So dad can buy and FA-10 it over to child? or is that a straw purchase?
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with MA. The prohibition on under 18/21 sales for long guns/handguns by FFL dealers is federal.

As to the straw purchase - your guess is as good as mine.

An FID is an excellent tool for a teenager who is borrowing a family car that may have some ammo rolling around in the trunk.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Has nothing to do with MA. The prohibition on under 18/21 sales for long guns/handguns by FFL dealers is federal.

As to the straw purchase - your guess is as good as mine.

An FID is an excellent tool for a teenager who is borrowing a family car that may have some ammo rolling around in the trunk.
Click to expand...

federal...makes sense.
 
As to straw purchases - buying a rifle for a 15 year old FID holder in your family would meet the definition, since you are not the intended actual end user. Furthermore, you would be buying to circumvent the fact that he is federally prohibited to buy from the dealer.

Simplest solution is to buy the gun for you, give the kid borrowing privileges, and eFA10 it to him on his 18th. I gave a friend a gun via FA10, with the understanding he was to transfer to his son when he turned 21 and got his LTC. So now the kid has an MIT degree, an LTC, a pilot's license, and has been promised his very own US govt issue fighter jet when he graduates with his masters.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
As to straw purchases - buying a rifle for a 15 year old FID holder in your family would meet the definition, since you are not the intended actual end user. Furthermore, you would be buying to circumvent the fact that he is federally prohibited to buy from the dealer.

Simplest solution is to buy the gun for you, give the kid borrowing privileges, and eFA10 it to him on his 18th. I gave a friend a gun via FA10, with the understanding he was to transfer to his son when he turned 21 and got his LTC. So now the kid has an MIT degree, an LTC, a pilot's license, and has been promised his very own US govt issue fighter jet when he graduates with his masters.
Click to expand...


So you just buy the gun they want. You keep it on your name then no issue. I don't agree wiht it but if that is the way it is not much I can do. Not an issue for me for two years anyway...but good info. Thank you for the explanation.
 
robjax said:
That makes no sense to me. But that doesn't mean it is not the case because this is Mass. My oldest is 15 in two years and on her birthday we are putting in the application for her FID. I thought like you that they could own non-large capacity rifles and or shotguns.

- - - Updated - - -






So dad can buy and FA-10 it over to child? or is that a straw purchase?
Click to expand...
You can apply at 14 for the FID, and it becomes active on the 15th birthday.
 
MisterHappy said:
You can apply at 14 for the FID, and it becomes active on the 15th birthday.
Click to expand...

Yeah....I'm going to have to take her for her Safety Course. So do they just wait a year to issue? Like apply when she is 14 and then they take 12 months to process or how does that work?
 
robjax said:
Yeah....I'm going to have to take her for her Safety Course. So do they just wait a year to issue? Like apply when she is 14 and then they take 12 months to process or how does that work?
Click to expand...

My son took the hunter safety course when he was 12. He was then allowed to hunt with me in VT (qualified him for youth hunting days too). Then, when he was 15 - almost to the day, he applied for the LTC. Had it in a few weeks. This was before the new law in MA, which allows a youth to apply before the 15th birthday. It is my understanding that you can go to apply a few months before. Then, a few month later, when it comes in, it should be there. I don't know the practicality of going in 6 month or a year early...

They asked for a letter from me saying I gave permission for him to get the FID.
 
VTHunter said:
My son took the hunter safety course when he was 12. He was then allowed to hunt with me in VT (qualified him for youth hunting days too). Then, when he was 15 - almost to the day, he applied for the LTC. Had it in a few weeks. This was before the new law in MA, which allows a youth to apply before the 15th birthday. It is my understanding that you can go to apply a few months before. Then, a few month later, when it comes in, it should be there. I don't know the practicality of going in 6 month or a year early...

They asked for a letter from me saying I gave permission for him to get the FID.
Click to expand...

I figure go anywhere from 6 month's to 4 months before. I should sign her up for the hunter safety course this fall. Never to early for the right?
 
Beretta92FS said:
Actually, that may not be correct. From the ATF:
Q: May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?

A: Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.​

https://www.atf.gov/content/may-par...or-ammunition-gift-juvenile-less-18-years-age
Click to expand...

A straw purchase only applies to a purchase intended to be sold to another individual. Gifts are specifically exempted on the 4473 in the instructions.
 
Beretta92FS said:
Actually, that may not be correct. From the ATF:
Q: May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?

A: Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.​

https://www.atf.gov/content/may-par...or-ammunition-gift-juvenile-less-18-years-age
Click to expand...
]
I think the need for a permission slip was added a few years ago.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
As to straw purchases - buying a rifle for a 15 year old FID holder in your family would meet the definition, since you are not the intended actual end user. Furthermore, you would be buying to circumvent the fact that he is federally prohibited to buy from the dealer.
Click to expand...

Do you just randomly spew crap without having a clue what the law actually is?
 
robjax said:
I figure go anywhere from 6 month's to 4 months before. I should sign her up for the hunter safety course this fall. Never to early for the right?
Click to expand...

HunterEd courses are, by statute, acceptable for both LTC and FID issuance, though there are some localities that will not accept it. Make sure that the PD is cool with it.

An FID for < 18 is $25. Some PDs "don't know" that, and will try to get $100. A minor needs parental/guardian permission to apply for an FID.

HunterEd courses are all through MassWildlife, and fill up almost instantly. Figure out were you want to take it, and haunt the MassWildlife website, and jump on it.

It seems that you're not inexperienced, but please remember that the Hunter Ed course has no live fire. I tell all HE classes that I teach in, that if you are using the course for FID/LTC, and do not have a way of getting range time (e.g. my kids were safe and competent with guns before they took the course), please get some live fire through another course.
 
If you have no plans to get a hunting license, just take the LTC safety course and save yourself some time. My youngest daughter did her LTC safety course when she was 17. I asked her if she wanted her FID and she said she'd just wait until she was 21 for her LTC.
 
MisterHappy said:
HunterEd courses are, by statute, acceptable for both LTC and FID issuance, though there are some localities that will not accept it. Make sure that the PD is cool with it.

An FID for < 18 is $25. Some PDs "don't know" that, and will try to get $100. A minor needs parental/guardian permission to apply for an FID.

HunterEd courses are all through MassWildlife, and fill up almost instantly. Figure out were you want to take it, and haunt the MassWildlife website, and jump on it.

It seems that you're not inexperienced, but please remember that the Hunter Ed course has no live fire. I tell all HE classes that I teach in, that if you are using the course for FID/LTC, and do not have a way of getting range time (e.g. my kids were safe and competent with guns before they took the course), please get some live fire through another course.
Click to expand...

Not certain but I think that when Claudia Stewart (Be Safe Firearms) ran the HE course at BR&P that her team did allow students to shoot. Just like if I run a HFS class at my location, every student will shoot multiple guns. Should not be an issue to add to a curriculum especially when that addition helps the student.
 
For anybody in the Bedford, Burlington, Woburn, Billerica area Woburn Sportsman runs a 6 week youth class on Staurday mornings 9AM -12. The kids can use the club guns learn firearm safety and get alot of rounds under their belt. The instructor will issue a safety certificate so they can get their FID. My son did it 2 years ago had a great time and it was a good reason to get a teenager out of bed before 11AM on a weekend. I think it was $50. See the info below. Dave is great with the kids.

My son's FID took about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks to process.

Junior Rifle
The Junior Rifle Course is scheduled several times throughout the year. This Saturday morning six-session 3-hours per day course is for boys and girls, ages 12 - 18. The course runs for six weeks and is a prerequisitefor membership on the WSA Junior Rifle Team. This is a course that will teach firearm safety and the fundamentals of competitive smallbore shooting.For more information, please contact DaveSimons at (978) 667-5586 or pick up a flyer on the Junior bulletinboard in the ready room outside of the Indoor Range.
 
MisterHappy said:
HunterEd courses are, by statute, acceptable for both LTC and FID issuance, though there are some localities that will not accept it. Make sure that the PD is cool with it.

An FID for < 18 is $25. Some PDs "don't know" that, and will try to get $100. A minor needs parental/guardian permission to apply for an FID.

HunterEd courses are all through MassWildlife, and fill up almost instantly. Figure out were you want to take it, and haunt the MassWildlife website, and jump on it.

It seems that you're not inexperienced, but please remember that the Hunter Ed course has no live fire. I tell all HE classes that I teach in, that if you are using the course for FID/LTC, and do not have a way of getting range time (e.g. my kids were safe and competent with guns before they took the course), please get some live fire through another course.
Click to expand...

I used to get my hunting license in the past. But I couldn't find a copy of an old one to grandfather me so I took the course. I don't hunt but it was something fun to do and I actually took the hunter safety course last year so I could get my sporting license. I don't really fresh water fish either but buying the license supports the cause. Not sure if my daughters will ever hunt but I think the course is good for them. Besides, they will have the option to or to not at that point... The Hunter Ed program also concentrates a lot on safety and some basic survival suggestions as well. Good for anyone to know. My girls want to go because they love the patch they issued at the end of the course. They are good with the safety already and with a .22 bolt my AR15 and my .380. Just need to pick aup a revolver to show them and they will have some good live fire experience before they go to the class.
 
mike1960 said:
For anybody in the Bedford, Burlington, Woburn, Billerica area Woburn Sportsman runs a 6 week youth class on Staurday mornings 9AM -12. The kids can use the club guns learn firearm safety and get alot of rounds under their belt. The instructor will issue a safety certificate so they can get their FID. My son did it 2 years ago had a great time and it was a good reason to get a teenager out of bed before 11AM on a weekend. I think it was $50. See the info below. Dave is great with the kids.

My son's FID took about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks to process.

Junior Rifle
The Junior Rifle Course is scheduled several times throughout the year. This Saturday morning six-session 3-hours per day course is for boys and girls, ages 12 - 18. The course runs for six weeks and is a prerequisitefor membership on the WSA Junior Rifle Team. This is a course that will teach firearm safety and the fundamentals of competitive smallbore shooting.For more information, please contact DaveSimons at (978) 667-5586 or pick up a flyer on the Junior bulletinboard in the ready room outside of the Indoor Range.
Click to expand...

That's a great price for 6 weeks. Are you serious? Wow. You can't do anything for 6 weeks for $50.00 anymore. If the hunter ED won't get them the FID I know a guy who runs an NRA course. I know I can sign them up for that. I already spoke to my girls yesterday. They were excited. My wife was silent. lol....
 
Rob Boudrie said:
As to straw purchases - buying a rifle for a 15 year old FID holder in your family would meet the definition, since you are not the intended actual end user. Furthermore, you would be buying to circumvent the fact that he is federally prohibited to buy from the dealer.

Simplest solution is to buy the gun for you, give the kid borrowing privileges, and eFA10 it to him on his 18th. I gave a friend a gun via FA10, with the understanding he was to transfer to his son when he turned 21 and got his LTC. So now the kid has an MIT degree, an LTC, a pilot's license, and has been promised his very own US govt issue fighter jet when he graduates with his masters.
Click to expand...

Please elaborate on the bolded part lol [smile]
 
rudiewhitebwoy said:
If you have no plans to get a hunting license, just take the LTC safety course and save yourself some time. My youngest daughter did her LTC safety course when she was 17. I asked her if she wanted her FID and she said she'd just wait until she was 21 for her LTC.
Click to expand...

I don't get the logic here. Why wait 4 years after taking the course? The FID is gonna allow you to still purchase firearms (within what is allowed) and head to the range. Unless she did the course as training, I get it....kind of.
 
JCV said:
I don't get the logic here. Why wait 4 years after taking the course? The FID is gonna allow you to still purchase firearms (within what is allowed) and head to the range. Unless she did the course as training, I get it....kind of.
Click to expand...


Yeah, i agree. Does the FID expire in 6 years as well? That way if they are issued at 15 when the are 21 they can just apply for the LTC.
 
Len-2A Training said:
Not certain but I think that when Claudia Stewart (Be Safe Firearms) ran the HE course at BR&P that her team did allow students to shoot. Just like if I run a HFS class at my location, every student will shoot multiple guns. Should not be an issue to add to a curriculum especially when that addition helps the student.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the Hunter Ed program is all volunteer - I'm happy to donate my time, but having to pay for ammo, as well.... With an NRA course the instructor can charge what the feel is right, or what the market will bear, to cover costs.

Another factor is that the curriculum is per the Program. I'm not the lead instructor (don't want to herd all those cats), so I'm not sure what deviation from the norm is permissible, but the available hours for the course is pretty jam-packed as well.

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robjax said:
Yeah, i agree. Does the FID expire in 6 years as well? That way if they are issued at 15 when the are 21 they can just apply for the LTC.
Click to expand...

yes.
 
A lot of clubs do a "come back next week if you want to try a bit of shooting" live fire session after the regular Hunter Safety courses
 
robjax said:
That's a great price for 6 weeks. Are you serious? Wow. You can't do anything for 6 weeks for $50.00 anymore. If the hunter ED won't get them the FID I know a guy who runs an NRA course. I know I can sign them up for that. I already spoke to my girls yesterday. They were excited. My wife was silent. lol....
Click to expand...

Taunton issued an FID to my daughter last year with the Hunters ED cert - $25 with no questions (I had the info printed just in case)
 

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