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Ideas for Mitigating the Anti-Gun Attempts!

There is a series of articles in American Handgunner by Jeff Snyder that are definitely worth a read for anybody who wants to consider a serious philosophical opposition to the gun banners:

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/GunRght.html

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/GunRght2.html

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/GunRght3.html

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/GunRght4.html


For what it is worth I think our response to this has to be something more that just the usual "because it's my Second Amendment right!". We need to get very very serious about this. The NRA does very good things for us - sometimes. My personal opinion is that we need to do something more grassroots however. We need to start to convince people that being trained in the use of firearms is in their best interest and the interest of the country. There is another thread where there is a call for an NES meeting to discuss this - that might be a good first start.
 
Here's another idea: buy they sympaythies of the community buy holding fundraisers for the local causes (e.g. in my town we have the CAC which provides food and clothing to people and a group called Ahimsa Haven that runs a local animal shelter.)

These groups tend to be run by liberals. Let them know we're not a bunch of toothless hicks running around shooting at everything that moves!
 
ChristosX said:
This would have to be done carefully but could be effective. Make it known that lawful firearm owners support laws against illegal guns....
Click to expand...

Minor nit: Illegal possession of guns. The guns themselves do not break laws. Laws are for men.
 
The anti's don't just come out and say take away all the gun ban everything. Where do they start. They talk about crime, violence, gun violence etc. They highlight the "gun" in gun violence and convince people who don't know any better than by removing the gun the violence goes away.

We should do similar to what they do. Attack crime and violence, come up with our own solutions to the violence problem, use logic to swing the minds of the people who just don't know.

Everyone will agree we have a violence problem, if we all work together to "fight crime" we won't look like the bad guys crying let me keep my guns.

There is a difference between the phrase "Gun Violence" and "Violence with Guns". If Gun owners and the various organization come forward and publicly support the fight against "violence including violence with guns", it will be harder for the anti's to call us gun pushers and evil gun owners when we're trying to do the same thing they are: make our streets safer.

We need to start our own anti violence campaign.
 
Here is a good place to put your "independent media" articles:

http://worcester.indymedia.org/process/resources/

Here is their blurb about what they do, including their "mission statement". It sounds like they are made for this sort of "mitigation".


The Worcester IMC is a non-commercial, democratic collective of bay area independent media makers and media outlets, and serves as the local organizing unit of the global Indymedia network. Principles of Unity: Worcester IMC 1. We strive to provide an information infrastructure for people and opinions who do not have access to the airwaves, tools and resources of corporate media. This includes audio, video, photography, internet distribution and any other communication medium. 2. We support local, regional and global struggles against exploitation and oppression. 3. We function as a non-commercial, non-corporate, anti-capitalist collective. Worcester IMC involves volunteer participants and allied collectives organized along anti-authoritarian principles of open and transparent decision-making processes, including open public meetings; a form of modified consensus; and the elimination of hierarchies. Worcester IMC participants shall not act in a manner that endangers, intimidates, or physically harms any member of the group, including by sexual harassment or acts of violence. Indymedia members shall strive to act in a respectful manner to other members of the collective as well as the public. Mission Statement * English: "We are a grassroots, community-based collective striving to provide universal access to news media without corporate filtering. This is a progressive outlet commited to amplifying the voices of everyday people and especially those working for justice and equality in central mass and around the world" * Spanish: "Somos un colectivo basado en la comunidad, el pueblo, esforzandose en proveer acceso universal a las noticias sin filtros corporativos. Este es un objetivo progresista comprometido en ampliar las voces de la gente de todos los dias y especialmente aquellos que trabajan para la justicia e igualdad en massachusetts central y en todo el mundo". Get Involved This is your independent media center. As an all-volunteer organization, we need you to get involved! Introduce yourself at our volunteer signup page and check our contact page for info on meetings and e-mail lists. Last updated Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:12:36 -0700 (http://worcester.indymedia.org/process/about.php)
 
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How come it seems that (at least on here) that most police officers and even chiefs are in favor of an individual right to keep and bear arms? Yet, when it comes to the paper and politics, it seems none of them do? I think a good place to start would be to get them to agree with themselves and stick to the same story all the time. What gives? It just seems that they talk one way then the other as it suits them. I guess it must be $$ is the motivating factor. Is there a way to convince them what's right is right?
 
So what do we do with all this? Was this just a sort of post election frustration outlet, or will we actually do some of this?

I've been thinking about how to organize a charity shoot and how to combine it with some positive press coverage. I'm thinking of targetting something in the spring.

Matt
 
Coyote33 said:
How come it seems that (at least on here) that most police officers and even chiefs are in favor of an individual right to keep and bear arms? Yet, when it comes to the paper and politics, it seems none of them do? I think a good place to start would be to get them to agree with themselves and stick to the same story all the time. What gives? It just seems that they talk one way then the other as it suits them. I guess it must be $$ is the motivating factor. Is there a way to convince them what's right is right?
Click to expand...

The leadership of the MCOPA set their policy and are the mouthpiece behind every bit of anti-gun legislation.

The vast majority of MA chiefs are NOT involved in MCOPA, even if they pay dues.

This is very much like the legislature. Even if the constituents think owning guns is OK, the legistraitors "know better" than the common, unwashed masses.

I have no idea how any of us can influence the leadership of MCOPA. We certainly can't get them to elect people like Ron Glidden to high office.
 
matt said:
So what do we do with all this? Was this just a sort of post election frustration outlet, or will we actually do some of this?

I've been thinking about how to organize a charity shoot and how to combine it with some positive press coverage. I'm thinking of targetting something in the spring.

Matt
Click to expand...

It's up to each of us to take some ideas from here and run with them.
 
LenS said:
The leadership of the MCOPA set their policy and are the mouthpiece behind every bit of anti-gun legislation.

The vast majority of MA chiefs are NOT involved in MCOPA, even if they pay dues.

This is very much like the legislature. Even if the constituents think owning guns is OK, the legistraitors "know better" than the common, unwashed masses.

I have no idea how any of us can influence the leadership of MCOPA. We certainly can't get them to elect people like Ron Glidden to high office.
Click to expand...

I guess this is what the underlying problem is. How do we educate the chiefs and/or the leadership? Enough of the pessimism, think positive.

Then again, what about the ranks, as opposed to the MCOPA? Don't they weigh in somewhere?
 
The "troops" get no say in what admin does. Trust me on this, my 18 years working PT and being friendly with both my first chief and most of the "troops" taught me a lot.

Most chiefs that belong to MCOPA just send their dues money in and don't even attend the meetings. Policy is made by those that claw their way to the top of that org and most want no part of those politics. Most of these guys haven't "been on the street" in more than 10 years and have no clue about the needs of the "troops". Sad but true. [Think of how many gun club members attend meetings vs. total membership. Think again how many actually participate in doing anything for the club vs. total membership. Situation isn't much different in MCOPA.]

It's not pessimism, just reality.
 
LenS said:
The "troops" get no say in what admin does. ....
Click to expand...

Yeah, but doesn't the union also take a stand? Do they side with "the troops"? If not, why always a disconnect and if so, what can be done about it? No is not acceptable.
 
Joining a Gun Club

Maybe this isn't the right place to post this but here goes....

Many people that did not grow up with guns in the household have a fear of guns. The way to combat that is to introduce them to guns. Take a politician, child, family member, coworker, friend to the range so that they can see that guns are not inherently evil. Very simple, eh?

Here's the problem.

I am a member of a gun club with an indoor pistol range but no facilities for rifle. My adult stepson has expressed an interest in learning to shoot Rifles... Easy enough as I have several rifles for him to pick from....just no place to shoot...yet.

I am applying to join a gun club with outdoor rifle facilities. This is what I have to go through to join...

Procedure for Application

1. Present completed application with all appropriate fees to the Membership Secretary at the Board of Directors Meeting (first Tuesday of the month at 7:30pm)
2. Acceptance of application is contingent update (sp) attendance of New Member Orientation (second Tuesday of the month at 7:30pm)
3. Membership credetials will be presented at the General Membership meeting (third Tuesday of the month at 7:30pm)

A bit of a daunting procedure to join a club....The Commonwealth of Mass trusts me enough to give me a Class A LTC, yet this is the kind of silliness that we endure from our own kind.

The solution...teach others the joy of shooting-just make it easier to get on a club
 
Sorry, I don't see anything daunting, unusual or foreboding about that procedure.

Before someone is given a key to a club where they get to do destructive things (shooting even the backstop does damage it over time, requiring maintenance), one has the right to meet and greet said person. Having to learn the range rules specific for that club's ranges is not unusual or onerous.

Ensuring in some way that you can safely handle a weapon without destroying the property is not unreasonable.

MA does NOT trust you enough to carry a gun or even own one just because you got a LTC-A! Those (few) chiefs who follow the law are only assured that you have NO criminal/mental health record and thus issue the LTC-A. It shows NOTHING about your ability or knowledge in handling a gun safely.

I have seen MANY LTC-holders doing all sorts of unsafe actions with guns: pointing them at others (especially when they had a misfire and it's still loaded), shooting holes in the steel doors at a gun club, shooting across the firing line, putting holes in the screens between shooting stations, walking downrange to change targets while people are shooting, etc.

Sorry, no sympathy from here.
 
JollyRoger said:
Maybe this isn't the right place to post this but here goes....

Many people that did not grow up with guns in the household have a fear of guns. The way to combat that is to introduce them to guns. Take a politician, child, family member, coworker, friend to the range so that they can see that guns are not inherently evil. Very simple, eh?

Here's the problem.

I am a member of a gun club with an indoor pistol range but no facilities for rifle. My adult stepson has expressed an interest in learning to shoot Rifles... Easy enough as I have several rifles for him to pick from....just no place to shoot...yet.

I am applying to join a gun club with outdoor rifle facilities. This is what I have to go through to join...

Procedure for Application

1. Present completed application with all appropriate fees to the Membership Secretary at the Board of Directors Meeting (first Tuesday of the month at 7:30pm)
2. Acceptance of application is contingent update (sp) attendance of New Member Orientation (second Tuesday of the month at 7:30pm)
3. Membership credetials will be presented at the General Membership meeting (third Tuesday of the month at 7:30pm)

A bit of a daunting procedure to join a club....The Commonwealth of Mass trusts me enough to give me a Class A LTC, yet this is the kind of silliness that we endure from our own kind.

The solution...teach others the joy of shooting-just make it easier to get on a club
Click to expand...


Doesn't sound like a big deal to me. Westford does essentially the same thing, except they take the application and do a short orientation at the first meeting, then vote members in at a general meeting, complete the orientation and give out the card key/gate combo.

Ken
 
I know this is a fairly old post but this morning on talk radio Michelle whatever her name is was talking about the 3 rape victoms on the east side. A caller came on and said if the 3 women were armed they would have been able to defend themselves. She abruptly shut him down and said what needs to be done is Boston needs to turn on the lights in the park like they are supposed to!! I couldnt call in at the time and probably just as well. If people like her think some likes will prevent others from becoming victoms they are surely wrong. Maybe she should be someone who is invited to a range to see how people do own guns legally and use them to protect themselves.

One other thing she said that bothered me was that these women have a right to walk through the park at 5am and not be assaulted. Although I agree that they should not be assaulted I also live in a realistic world and feel that some people should just use common sense. Something that seems to be lacking in our country lately.
 
A caller came on and said if the 3 women were armed they would have been able to defend themselves. She abruptly shut him down and said what needs to be done is Boston needs to turn on the lights in the park like they are supposed to!!
Click to expand...

Sadly that is the way liberals think.

One other thing she said that bothered me was that these women have a right to walk through the park at 5am and not be assaulted. Although I agree that they should not be assaulted I also live in a realistic world and feel that some people should just use common sense.
Click to expand...

Again sadly this is the way they think.

What is more sad is the caller who told her about the victims arming themselves didn't destroy her lights in the park argument.

As far as taking her to the range, sheeple like her are so far beyond hope it isn't even worth the effort of "thinking" about correcting her illogical thought process.
 
Anything new?

I'd love a chance to help out with this. Are there any current ideas or plans for anything that was mentioned in this post?
I have posted elsewhere about when to start writing to politicians to help support GOAL working with State Legislators on the comprehensive rewrite of the current gun law.
Let me know what I can do to help, and I'll do it.
 
my two and a half cents

Rob87 said:
I didn't see any of that as an issue. I actually enjoyed the process. [grin]
Click to expand...

I think the bigger problem with joining the club, is it can seem Very intimidating to those that have never been around others that shoot, or are just starting to look into the sport. going to a meeting with a bunch of people you've never met to be, in essence, measured up and seen if they are good enough to join this club can be a daunting task. I know this is not how it actually is, however that's how it reads to a lot of people.

It's kinda like joining a new highschool, you're afraid to talk to people, because you are not aware of the social environment of that place and ar afraid that you will say/do something stupid. people stay away from what they are afraid of or uncomfortable with, even if they are only uncomfortable because of what they dont know or 'think they know'.

When I was first getting into guns, I had a friend Mike that was great, he introduced me to harvard SC, some people, and I learned that most "gun guys" are fun to be around and interesting people, but without that first introduction, I would have been much more nervous than I am now, where I hope to join Harvard SC this next meeting. without that introduction, I would probably put off the whole thing for a longer time as there are plenty of activities that i'm already good at and comfortable with to keep me busy.

the best thing you can do for people I think to spread awareness, interest and comfort of firearms is to bring your friends that know nothing about firearms, or never thought of them to the range, bring a family member, or co-worker. Introduce them not only to the weapons, but the people. if they are afraid, challenge them to over come their fears, and offer to teach them so they can feel comfortable. then ask them to pay it forward and have them bring a friend of theirs to the range. offer to go and supervise if your friend is still very new or wants the company (or you have cooler guns than he/she does)

unfortunately at this point, guns are a social taboo, and a large social event (or even a small one) will only attract people who already know about guns or are involved with them, we need to personally and individually go out and educate people that wouldn't even notice the even in the paper or would think its silly. 'Gun guys' are great people, we just have to show people this, and this can only be done by helping them take that first step towards meeting some and showing them our sport.
 
Coyote33 said:
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=50578&highlight=goal
Click to expand...

Thanks, I knew about that thread - I've posted the info on my Facebook and Myspace pages.

MasterShinken said:
I think the bigger problem with joining the club, is it can seem Very intimidating to those that have never been around others that shoot, or are just starting to look into the sport. going to a meeting with a bunch of people you've never met to be, in essence, measured up and seen if they are good enough to join this club can be a daunting task. I know this is not how it actually is, however that's how it reads to a lot of people.
Click to expand...

That is *exactly* how it feels to me. I'm actually very shy and am afraid to talk to new people, so to feel like I'm being measured up is really scary to me. That's why it's taken me almost a year and a half to get the nerve to apply for my gun license and seriously consider joining a club. Even with as much as I love shooting, I don't have anyone to go with me to the 2nd Amendment Sisters tomorrow, and that makes me nervous about going. I like having a familiar person with me as a "safety blanket". [thinking]
 
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Becka said:
. . . I don't have anyone to go with me to the 2nd Amendment Sisters tomorrow, and that makes me nervous about going. I like having a familiar person with me as a "safety blanket". [thinking]
Click to expand...

Becka, introduce yourself to Nicole or Viking Kitten first. I can guarantee that either lady will make you feel more than welcome! I'll be bopping in there before they get started as I need to connect with VK to check out her 642 trigger, but I can't hang around, as I'm not welcome at SAS events.
 
LenS said:
... we need ideas to mitigate the attempts by the Anti-gun crowd to further stomp on our rights.
Click to expand...


IDEA 1: The Educational Outreach Strategy

"Teach a Teacher to Shoot" day. My school has a "bowling night". Why not invite some members of one of the most entrenched liberal institutions for a "shooting day". Overcome the stigma, and the preconception that people who own and shoot guns are "bad".

IDEA 2: The Greensboro Lunchcounter Strategy

Again, taking our case into the belly of the beast .... "Open Carry Breakfast" in the most liberal communities that can be found. Let the liberal customers complain. Have the manager to ask that you leave. Let the police respond, if neccesary. Then sue. Then return and do it again. Reinforce the reality that RKBA is a "civil right". (Bring a lwyer when you do this)

I'll nominate the Monterey General Store in Berkshire county as a potential flashpoint for this "civil rights struggle".
 
IDEA 3 (actually, this is a VERY old one, preceding this forum):

GUERRILLA MARKETING 101: Rearrange magazine racks at Borders, Barnes and Noble, etc. so that the Guns and Ammo, Shotgun News, and all the other gun magazines are up front at eye level in front of the Golf and Oprah and Women's Day magazines.

GUERRILLA MARKETING 102: Leave old copies of your own gun magazines at the doctor's, dentist's office, barber shop, other waiting room type areas. Don't forget to tear out your name if you want to remain anonymous.
 
Hey Len,
Again, great thread. As far as people being intimidated at joining a new club, depends on the club. All are different and it can take a little while to find one or two that fit your personality. I belong to one where there is a group of old timers that are just a little crotchety... doesn't bother me, but does some. I am in the process of joining a second club where a bunch of people I have become friends with shoot and think I will be spending most of my time there. The point being (thus why I am posting on this thread) is you just need to find a place YOU feel comfortable. When you do, you will spend more time there and feel better about bringing friends who are not into shooting there to try it and some of them will enjoy it and out numbers grow. I have so many very liberal friends who claim to be anti gun, but as soon as they find out I own and shoot they want me to take them with them. While I don't require a quid pro quo, it look at it as an opportunity to educate them about the sports. Even if they never get a license or own a gun, now they know a friend who does, who they enjoy shooting with and are much more sympathetic to us and our views, especially when accurately describing why current and proposed laws won't work on making them safer but alternatives that will. Just my 2 cents... ok, maybe 5 cents.
 
Jon, there is another thread I started a long time ago on "what to look for in a gun club". Not sure if it is a "sticky" or not.

- I've been "working on" a bank manager that I'm friendly with to get her to try shooting at one of my clubs. We've talked a few times about it and she said that she's likely to do so when the weather warms up. I "salted" the idea by broadening the invite for her "comfort" . . . her best friend is another branch manager that I also know, so I told her that she could widen the invitation for the both of them or bring her 13 yo Daughter (as long as she'd follow safety instructions). She's a single Mom and the two bankers like to go on long walks in a town known for problems. She already faced off a guy who stalked them as they walked . . . I gave her kudos for the brass balls, but warned her that she should take steps to be able to protect herself for situations where she can't talk her way out of it.

If this works, I might be able to widen it further with other bank employees. Who knows! The bank president is a friend, former neighbor and a gun owner, so I'm not worried about info "leaking" back to him. [wink]
 
win the hearts and minds, and the rest will follow-- since massachusetts is so anti-gun i asked myself... why?? the answer was its a man's sport and women are not necessarily encouraged to play. so this being said, ive started a ladies night at the holbrook sportsmen's club in Holbrook. i ask for only women that have never fired a gun and are interested. i line up 12 instructors from my club and have them help me out. ive also gotten the second ammendment sisters involved.

my second shoot is coming up and the response is over-whelming. my first shoot i had 33women. of those 33 women, only one had fired a gun and 2 had actually held one. the rest had never touch one. my next shoot scheduled for feb. 28 has 40-45 women attending. i am already lining up march!

you guys may want to start implementing this in your respective clubs. if you get mom and the girlfriend and the sister behind it, then we have more pro-gun people in our corner.

oh yeah, the club is absorbing the cost under education. we let them shoot a .22 pistol and rifle. we keep a few 9mm's, 38's and 40's available if they want to try it out.

this is how we're going to save our sports and activities. please consider trying this at your club. contact me if you want more info--

Gary Davis
Vice- president
holbrook sportsmens club
[email protected]
 

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