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10mm????

I am not a big fan of the 10mm. Loaded to its full potential it is hard on the gun and has too much recoil to suit me. I much prefer the .45 for defensive purposes.

If you don't use full power loads in your 10mm you might as well shoot a .40. The 10mm can be hard on the equipment and is expensive, even to reload. The .40 is one of the cheapest calibers to reload; brass is free on the ground at your local range. I think it is the ideal round for competition and practice in non-comp guns.
 
we have a G20 and the grip is too damned big for my hands, so i don't really like shooting it, but the bf loves it.

ammo is expensive tho...we usually pick it up @ BPS.

it has a good kick when you shoot it, imo...but that might just be more of a problem with my grip
 
Gammon said:
I am not a big fan of the 10mm. Loaded to its full potential it is hard on the gun and has too much recoil to suit me. I much prefer the .45 for defensive purposes.

If you don't use full power loads in your 10mm you might as well shoot a .40. The 10mm can be hard on the equipment and is expensive, even to reload. The .40 is one of the cheapest calibers to reload; brass is free on the ground at your local range. I think it is the ideal round for competition and practice in non-comp guns.
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Nice that you re-iterated twice that it's hard on the guns - this can be fixed with proper spring and shock buffers, depending on the gun.

I'm with Jim on the 10mm Auto - it is an excellent round that can do lots of things when loaded to the purpose inteneded. I own a G20, G29, and a Delta Elite.

I would still rather shoot the 10mm than going to a .40 Short & Weak. The .40 S&W is a decent round until you start loading it high. Doing this gives you 2/3 of a hotter 10mm load in a pistol package that was designed and toughened from a 9mm frame. I'm not too fond of doing that myself and will stick to 10mm frames.

Ammo is tough to find. BPS is one that reliably keeps a supply of the Remington green box 180's in the case. A couple of other shops have a very small supply of ammo available. I have the cases to start reloading - I just have to take the time to start prepping/sizing and then talk to Jim for his loads he uses. [smile]

Joe R.
 
MMf; i have the Glock G20,5.5 lb trigger,clean it every 1000 rounds if it needs it or not.This is my SHTF handgun,COR BON 180 gr 1300ft sec.675 lbs You can reload wellover 800lbs . has never ever faild to fire or stove pipe15 +1 cap. Order the Lone wolf 40 converison and shoot the weak meek 40 cal. Go 10mm!
 
The Remsport Consignment sale in Ludlow MA has a Glock 29 10mm for sale
MA. OK and in excelent condition $650.00
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The 10mm is a great round. One of my favorites. To be honest, I haven't shot my Delta Elite in a while, but when I was, ammo was never a problem (I reload). Except for brass, all the other components are plentiful since it uses the same bullet as the 40SW and the same primers as the .45ACP.

If there's any time to think of reloading, getting a 10mm or 38Super is it. Believe it or not, it's really not that expensive to get started and it's just as much fun as shooting in many ways.
 
Brian48 said:
If there's any time to think of reloading, getting a 10mm or 38Super is it. Believe it or not, it's really not that expensive to get started and it's just as much fun as shooting in many ways.
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+1. Get started reloading to save yourself some money. Keep doing it because it's a great hobby all by itself AND you can make a lot better rounds than you can buy.
 
EddieCoyle said:
I prefer the G29 to the G20 - much more controllable (seriously).
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After reading Boston's Gun Bible I can can see that being logical. He's a fan of the 10mm auto an of the G20 but not so much the G29. His opinion was that 10mm needs a long barrel and the short barrel of the G29 doesn't allow the powder to fully burn off. This would is handicap the performance of the 10mm round to a much further degree than other common pistol rounds. It would also stand to reason that if the round had less umph out a 3" barrel then it would also have less recoil as well.
 
Jason said:
After reading Boston's Gun Bible I can can see that being logical. He's a fan of the 10mm auto an of the G20 but not so much the G29. His opinion was that 10mm needs a long barrel and the short barrel of the G29 doesn't allow the powder to fully burn off. This would is handicap the performance of the 10mm round to a much further degree than other common pistol rounds. It would also stand to reason that if the round had less umph out a 3" barrel then it would also have less recoil as well.
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Having handloaded many different loads for the 10mm, and having fired them over a chrono from about a dozen different guns, I can say with a fair degree of confidence that he's full of sh!t.

The speed loss from a G20 to a G29 is less than 50fps in many cases. The reduction in recoil is because of the design of the gun, not because of a supposed reduction in power.
 
Wow...five pages of people saying it's a great load but expensive.

Well, I'm going to let you in on my personal perspective. You see, Eddie Coyle was nice enough to let me shoot his Glock at the last NES shoot. Honestly, I thought it was great round. Boy though, if you don't reload it's going expensive and very hard to find these days. That's what I thought of the 10M.

Wanna see my T@ts?

(figuratively speaking of course)
 
I'm sort of leisurely looking for a G20.

I'm completely happy with my 40 cal G35 as a self-defense gun, but when I retire in 5 or 6 years and move west, I'm going to need a sidearm for bear country. So I figure either a G20 or a 44 magnum, and I'm leaning towards the Glock. Doubt if I'll shoot it all that much, so ammo price won't be much of a factor. My 40 Glock will be a sort of sub-caliber trainer! [grin]

Regards
John
 
EddieCoyle said:
Having handloaded many different loads for the 10mm, and having fired them over a chrono from about a dozen different guns, I can say with a fair degree of confidence that he's full of sh!t.

The speed loss from a G20 to a G29 is less than 50fps in many cases. The reduction in recoil is because of the design of the gun, not because of a supposed reduction in power.
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He very well could be and I can't say I'm an expert either. What would be the design differences though? If it not related to a significant reduction in power than it make me even more curious as to what it would be.
 
Jason said:
He very well could be and I can't say I'm an expert either. What would be the design differences though? If it not related to a significant reduction in power than it make me even more curious as to what it would be.
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The G29 (and G30 and probably the G-whatever-the-subcompact-.357-Sig-is) has a funky double recoil spring with an internal plunger that really mitigates the felt recoil.

I don't have a G20 anymore, but you're welcome to get one and try it against my G29 with some "special" 10mm loads. You won't notice a difference with most of the common factory 10mm available nowadays because most of that is just .40 S&W dressed like a 10mm.
 
Good luck finding ammo and it will be expensive when he does find it.

If he's just looking to add to his collection, then the ammo thing won't matter so much - just buy it when he comes across it. If he's looking to keep it in heavy rotation, then he's going to spend more time looking for ammo. All that aside, 10mm is a fun gun to shoot.
 
MST_2009 said:
Good luck finding ammo and it will be expensive when he does find it.

If he's just looking to add to his collection, then the ammo thing won't matter so much - just buy it when he comes across it. If he's looking to keep it in heavy rotation, then he's going to spend more time looking for ammo. All that aside, 10mm is a fun gun to shoot.
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I love shooting the 10MM. Whenever I see 10MM, I buy it, even if I havent shot it recently. It is definitely a hard calibre to find, but I have had some success lately finding it when I actually want to. I have a good 1400 rounds of it in the safe now [smile]
Dench said:
the G33? [rofl]
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My carry gun and my best friend. God I love that gun.
 
MST_2009 said:
Good luck finding ammo and it will be expensive when he does find it.
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It's not that hard to find, it's just expensive. I always see it at Riley's but it is northward of $20+ a box. I still generally see it cheaper than
.357 Sig, though, oddly enough. No, you won't find it at walmart or small gun stores, but it's out there. It's probably more obtainable than
9/.40/.45 right now is due to the ammo crunch.

The thing is, once you know how to reload it, it's somewhat of a moot issue. 10mm really isn't that hard to reload overall. The only "hard" part
is getting a supply of brass built up.

-Mike
 
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I have two 10mm handguns, a Glock 20 and a Dan Wesson Bobtail Commander.

They are wonderful guns and a great caliber. The 10mm was originally developed to provide performance similar to the .41 Special revolver round in a semi-automatic package. It started to take off after FBI weapons evaluators determined that it was the FBI's "round of choice" to replace the 9mm, which was deemed to lack sufficient barrier penetration capabilities.

The FBI was comparing round capabilities after firing through a range of barriers while weighting weapon types by capacity. However, after the first 10mm weapons were delivered to the FBI, they changed the specs for the round due to "controllability issues" - basically poorly trained FBI agents had trouble qualifying with the full power 10mm ammo they were issuing.

In the end, the specs for the FBI version of the 10mm allowed S&W, who didn't have an existing handgun with a frame long enough to support the 10mm round to develop a shorter round that would cycle in their shorter action. The .40 S&W became the FBI round of choice and glock then beat S&W to market with the Glock 22 and Glock 23 as the first production guns chambered in the new caliber.

So, why is 10mm better than .40 S&W? You can down-load a 10mm to the exact same specs as a .40 S&W or you can push the round to carry 20-30% more energy out of the barrel. The longer case is almost more forgiving with heavier bullets where the .40S&W can quickly over-pressure with 180gn bullets if they're set-back a little too far.

A 10mm round can be loaded hotter than a .357 Magnum and a 15rd Glock 20 magazine can carry more energy than a 6rd .44 Magnum cylender.

Plus, you can pick up a .40 S&W conversion barrel for a Glock 20, allowing you to shoot less expensive .40S&W ammo while still having the option to go full bore with 10mm rounds.
 
ShadeWPI said:
I have two 10mm handguns, a Glock 20 and a Dan Wesson Bobtail Commander.

They are wonderful guns and a great caliber. The 10mm was originally developed to provide performance similar to the .41 Special revolver round in a semi-automatic package. It started to take off after FBI weapons evaluators determined that it was the FBI's "round of choice" to replace the 9mm, which was deemed to lack sufficient barrier penetration capabilities.

The FBI was comparing round capabilities after firing through a range of barriers while weighting weapon types by capacity. However, after the first 10mm weapons were delivered to the FBI, they changed the specs for the round due to "controllability issues" - basically poorly trained FBI agents had trouble qualifying with the full power 10mm ammo they were issuing.

In the end, the specs for the FBI version of the 10mm allowed S&W, who didn't have an existing handgun with a frame long enough to support the 10mm round to develop a shorter round that would cycle in their shorter action. The .40 S&W became the FBI round of choice and glock then beat S&W to market with the Glock 22 and Glock 23 as the first production guns chambered in the new caliber.

So, why is 10mm better than .40 S&W? You can down-load a 10mm to the exact same specs as a .40 S&W or you can push the round to carry 20-30% more energy out of the barrel. The longer case is almost more forgiving with heavier bullets where the .40S&W can quickly over-pressure with 180gn bullets if they're set-back a little too far.

A 10mm round can be loaded hotter than a .357 Magnum and a 15rd Glock 20 magazine can carry more energy than a 6rd .44 Magnum cylender.

Plus, you can pick up a .40 S&W conversion barrel for a Glock 20, allowing you to shoot less expensive .40S&W ammo while still having the option to go full bore with 10mm rounds.
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S&W did build a 10mm for the FBI, the 1076. They already had a large frame pistol on 10mm, the 1006. Problems ensued because the large frame was cumbersome for those with small hands.

The choice of 10mm was political according to some of my friends in the business at S&W. One faction in the gov't supported the .45 and another wanted the 9mm, so the 10mm was a compromise. The compromise was short lived due to handling problems (see above) and the recoil of the 10mm. The recoil problem was solved by issuing rounds that resemble to .40. Also, there were problems with the 1076 which was rushed into production, leading to QC problems.

The hard fact is that a full power 10mm round (200gr at 1200fps) is too much for most shooters, including the officers it was issued to. The mention of the .41 mag gave me a chuckle; it never went anywhere in LE, most likely for the same reason.

The .40, which is the greatest round in the world, was the final compromise. Why use a long round requiring a large frame when you can get the performance you want out of a short round in a smaller frame? The rest is history; the .40 proliferated and the 10 languished.

Before you 10mm afficianados get your knickers in a knot, hear me out. I think the .40 is the greatest round to come down the pike because of its role in competitive shooting. This round is extremely versatile and performs extremely well in IPSC competition as it can be loaded to major velocities for limited class, but is small enough to fit 20 rounds in a mag. You just can't do that with a .45.

Also the .40 is cheap to shoot. Brass is free on the ground at your local range and the .40 offers the option of lighter bullets (180, 165, 155, and 135) than the .45. Most of your .40 loading can be done with fast burning powders like WW 231 which are relatively cheap. I can duplicate the performance of a 200gr .45 round in one of my .40s and save about 25% . This allows you to practice on a 1911 platform for a lot less money.

Unfortunately the .40's claim to fame is in the practice/competition area only. I love this caliber and use it for about 75% of my shooting but wouldn't consider carrying a .40. I much prefer my 5906 loaded with 9mm CorBons (147gr hollow points at 1100 fps) or the venerable .45 ACP in my new M&P.
 

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