10 round capacity and "approved" roster?

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Hi NES,

I'm an MA resident who's new to northeastshooters and to the world of guns, and just a couple weeks ago, I got my fingers printed while applying for an LTC-A in Andover, and I'm a bit confused about the capacity limit on handguns here as well as what models of handguns are and aren't legal. From what I understand, there is a TEN round limit capacity for handguns in this state unless the magazine you are using was made BEFORE 1998. However, does this take into account for a round loaded in the chamber of the gun? For example, does this mean I have to carry a handgun that can only hold 9 rounds in the magazine with the 10th round being the one in the chamber, or am I able to carry a handgun that has a 10 round magazine with one round in the chamber, giving me a total of 11 rounds?

Also, as for the "approved" roster: (https://www.mass.gov/doc/approved-firearms-roster-7/download) if one model of the handgun on the list is approved, does this mean all variants of that model are also approved? For example, I've been interested in trying to get an H&K VP9SK when my LTC comes. While the VP9SK is not on the approved list, the full-sized VP9 is so does that mean the VP9SK is MA legal? I have been told that just because a handgun isn't on the list does not mean it is illegal to purchase and use.

I'm asking this because I'm trying to do my homework while waiting for my LTC. I'm trying to find a subcompact 9mm handgun for concealed carry that can also give me a 10 round capacity. If I could get any advice on what to buy, and what is and isn't legal, I would greatly appreciate it.
 
Well done doing your homework. There are a lot of prior threads on these topics but don’t mind curmudgeons who will give you a hard time. Just remember almost any question you can imagine has been addressed before and can be found with the search feature.

Ten-rd mag limit doesn’t include one in the chamber. Also doesn’t apply if you get a pre-ban mag. For example, I carried one Glock with 17+1 using a pre-ban mag and another Glock with 10+1 using a post-ban mag.

Called to kids’ bedtime — someone else will address the list.
 
Goal.org has the laws and answers,.. 10 round mags are your limit unless preban, loaded chamber does not count. The list is for dealers only. Feel free to search this site as these questions come up every week.
 
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Welcome aboard. There are no illegal handguns in MA, only guns that are illegal for FFLs to sell in MA. You’re doing what we all did at one point or another & trying to decipher the “approved” roster. It’s a pointless exercise. I still can’t figure it out and gave up trying years ago. I have bought “approved” guns from FFLs and Glocks private party. None are illegal to own in MA as long as someone is willing to EFA-10 it to you.

Most subcompact carry guns have capacity of ten or less already so that shouldn’t be an issue. The M&P Shield, Ruger LC9, Sig P365, etc all have standard cap mags of 10 or less so that class of gun shouldn’t present a problem for you from a Mag capacity standpoint.
 
Hi NES,

I'm an MA resident who's new to northeastshooters and to the world of guns, and just a couple weeks ago, I got my fingers printed while applying for an LTC-A in Andover, and I'm a bit confused about the capacity limit on handguns here as well as what models of handguns are and aren't legal. From what I understand, there is a TEN round limit capacity for handguns in this state unless the magazine you are using was made BEFORE 1998.

No not 1998, preban mags are pre-9/13/1994. And no, all variants of a given model are not approved because one model is approved. The model has to be listed explicitly.
 
NES is slipping. No "Hi Maura" comments yet 😂 As was pointed out, disregard the "approved" roster. Some people refer to them as banned or illegal, neither of which is true.

I recently put someone in touch with a private party selling a VP9SK, which they bought. Perfectly legal. My wife has a Glock 19 Gen5. Where there's a will, there's a way.

As for the VP9SK, are you set on that? Reason I ask is I own a VP9 which I carry concealed all the time, no problem.
 
13-sep-1994 is the cutoff date. After that no mags over 10rds for rifles and pistols. Not 1998

As for the roster, never look at it again. It does not pertain to you but to dealers. You can buy and own any handgun that is not an assault weapon.

Vp9sk are out there and available. Find the right seller. Find the right collection of dealers in close proximity.
 
NES is slipping. No "Hi Maura" comments yet 😂 As was pointed out, disregard the "approved" roster. Some people refer to them as banned or illegal, neither of which is true.

I recently put someone in touch with a private party selling a VP9SK, which they bought. Perfectly legal. My wife has a Glock 19 Gen5. Where there's a will, there's a way.

As for the VP9SK, are you set on that? Reason I ask is I own a VP9 which I carry concealed all the time, no problem.

So the roster only applies to dealers and not the guy buying it?

Also, Im not 100% set on the vp9sk. Im open to anything that will work for me. Im not sure on carrying a full size because if I dont want my gun to print and not the biggest dude (5'7 and 155 lbs).

So far the only handguns Ive shot were a G43, an m&p9 shield, a full size beretta 92fs, a ruger sr1911, a steyr m9, and a full size vp9.

I wanna try out subcompacts that are on the bigger end that can hit that 10 round capacity and absorb the recoil more than say a G43. Next time Im at the range Ill be looking into pieces like a G43x, or 45 or 48.
 
Welcome aboard. There are no illegal handguns in MA, only guns that are illegal for FFLs to sell in MA. You’re doing what we all did at one point or another & trying to decipher the “approved” roster. It’s a pointless exercise. I still can’t figure it out and gave up trying years ago. I have bought “approved” guns from FFLs and Glocks private party. None are illegal to own in MA as long as someone is willing to EFA-10 it to you.

Most subcompact carry guns have capacity of ten or less already so that shouldn’t be an issue. The M&P Shield, Ruger LC9, Sig P365, etc all have standard cap mags of 10 or less so that class of gun shouldn’t present a problem for you from a Mag capacity standpoint.
Hi what is an EFA-10? Is it some firearm transfer form or something?
 
Hi NES,

I'm an MA resident who's new to northeastshooters and to the world of guns, and just a couple weeks ago, I got my fingers printed while applying for an LTC-A in Andover, and I'm a bit confused about the capacity limit on handguns here as well as what models of handguns are and aren't legal. From what I understand, there is a TEN round limit capacity for handguns in this state unless the magazine you are using was made BEFORE 1998. However, does this take into account for a round loaded in the chamber of the gun? For example, does this mean I have to carry a handgun that can only hold 9 rounds in the magazine with the 10th round being the one in the chamber, or am I able to carry a handgun that has a 10 round magazine with one round in the chamber, giving me a total of 11 rounds?

Also, as for the "approved" roster: (https://www.mass.gov/doc/approved-firearms-roster-7/download) if one model of the handgun on the list is approved, does this mean all variants of that model are also approved? For example, I've been interested in trying to get an H&K VP9SK when my LTC comes. While the VP9SK is not on the approved list, the full-sized VP9 is so does that mean the VP9SK is MA legal? I have been told that just because a handgun isn't on the list does not mean it is illegal to purchase and use.

I'm asking this because I'm trying to do my homework while waiting for my LTC. I'm trying to find a subcompact 9mm handgun for concealed carry that can also give me a 10 round capacity. If I could get any advice on what to buy, and what is and isn't legal, I would greatly appreciate it.
Go green.
 
So the roster only applies to dealers and not the guy buying it?

Also, Im not 100% set on the vp9sk. Im open to anything that will work for me. Im not sure on carrying a full size because if I dont want my gun to print and not the biggest dude (5'7 and 155 lbs).

So far the only handguns Ive shot were a G43, an m&p9 shield, a full size beretta 92fs, a ruger sr1911, a steyr m9, and a full size vp9.

I wanna try out subcompacts that are on the bigger end that can hit that 10 round capacity and absorb the recoil more than say a G43. Next time Im at the range Ill be looking into pieces like a G43x, or 45 or 48.

G43 is single stack, G43X is a G43 slide on a G48 frame. The difference between 43X and 48 is the length of the slide, 48's slide is longer.

I have a G43 as a carry gun, but lately have been carrying the 43X instead. The recoil in a 43X/48 is easier on your hand than the 43 because the grip is larger. It also fits my hand better, it's easier to get a solid grip on it. I have Pierce+1 extenders on the G43 mags which extend from 6 to 7 and let you put your pinky on the grip, but the 43X/48 mags carry 10 from the start and the grip's larger.

On all three of them, 43, 43X and 48 - I replaced the sights and triggers and put Talon Wraps on the grips. There are a ton of options for sights and triggers; but I really recommend the Talon Wrap.
 
Welcome to the club bigclover. We have a lot of very smart people on NES and many more people willing to help a fellow gun owner. This is an excellent community of solid people. Spend some time using the search function and you will be surprised by how much excellent information is already available.
 
Every gun is a compromise. So the sooner you get your head around the fact that you'll be owning 10+ guns, the quicker you can start the process. Don't sweat these first few purchases,.. and get involved with club activities/ meeting people so you can try out their guns and get their advice. Consider going green here, which means being able to sell items and supporting this website.
 
@bigclover try a Sig P365. I'm amazed that it holds 10 rounds for how small it is. Great shooter too, the recoil was not significan IMO.

I second this. I stopped by Gartman yesterday late afternoon and they told me they sold five 365s during the day (they were out when I got there, not that I was looking for one). Otherwise they mostly have Shields & full sized M&Ps available. They had one used airweight revolver.
 
There definitely seems to be a paradigm shift w/ new gun owners, it's all about the carry gun. That's unfortunate because IMO the first gun should be a full sized 9mm, something to learn on, good for homepro, that's fun to take to the range. Or a 4" .38 cal revolver like a 686 or a GP100. Everyone I know that has recently been licensed (and I know/have helped quite a few this year) want to go immediately to carry guns when there's little inventory to choose from and no ammo to train with. In the end, I expect very few of them to actually carry nor would I even necessarily recommend it unless they get a chance to train.
 
So the roster only applies to dealers and not the guy buying it?

Also, Im not 100% set on the vp9sk. Im open to anything that will work for me. Im not sure on carrying a full size because if I dont want my gun to print and not the biggest dude (5'7 and 155 lbs).

So far the only handguns Ive shot were a G43, an m&p9 shield, a full size beretta 92fs, a ruger sr1911, a steyr m9, and a full size vp9.

I wanna try out subcompacts that are on the bigger end that can hit that 10 round capacity and absorb the recoil more than say a G43. Next time Im at the range Ill be looking into pieces like a G43x, or 45 or 48.

Ok, the only reason I ask is that as was mentioned from another member, a lot of people go directly to a compact or subcompacts without ever really even firing one, and end up hating them. Looks like you've had the opportunity to try some out, which is good.

Also, I'm 5' 6", 175lbs and with a Vedders IWB Lightuck holster, I don't print with my VP9, and I carry it year round. You'd be surprised what you can conceal with the right setup.

As for the roster, it's for dealers selling firearms to limit them to what they can sell. A private party seller could sell you a firearm not on the list, however, the magazine capacity restriction still applies, unless they're preban.

Wanna really get confused on what's law and what's not, let's talk ARs! 😂 It's all just another way to keep firearms out of the hands of us common folk!
 
There definitely seems to be a paradigm shift w/ new gun owners, it's all about the carry gun. That's unfortunate because IMO the first gun should be a full sized 9mm, something to learn on, good for homepro, that's fun to take to the range. Or a 4" .38 cal revolver like a 686 or a GP100. Everyone I know that has recently been licensed (and I know/have helped quite a few this year) want to go immediately to carry guns when there's little inventory to choose from and no ammo to train with. In the end, I expect very few of them to actually carry nor would I even necessarily recommend it unless they get a chance to train.

Once I get my LTC and my piece the first thing I plan to do is is buy a holster and 10 snapcaps, and drill off of those at home, in my car alone, etc.

What I envisioned was getting a gun that can do everything with an emphasis on carrying it as much as I can. I understand that subcompacts and compacts are harder to shoot compared to full sizes but after shooting full sized handguns like the beretta 92fs and ruger sr1911, I know myself and I know gonna get lazy and slack off with carrying if all I own is a government model 1911. (Which feels like a handcannon for me)
 
Once I get my LTC and my piece the first thing I plan to do is is buy a holster and 10 snapcaps, and drill off of those at home, in my car alone, etc.

What I envisioned was getting a gun that can do everything with an emphasis on carrying it as much as I can. I understand that subcompacts and compacts are harder to shoot compared to full sizes but after shooting full sized handguns like the beretta 92fs and ruger sr1911, I know myself and I know gonna get lazy and slack off with carrying if all I own is a government model 1911. (Which feels like a handcannon for me)

Just set your expectations accordingly. A full size will be more accurate at distance so don't start out target shooting at 50 feet (with either really). Start at about 5 - 7 yards and get comfortable and accurate with it then move it back to say 7-9 yards. And then further if you're good at that distance.
 
Once I get my LTC and my piece the first thing I plan to do is is buy a holster and 10 snapcaps, and drill off of those at home, in my car alone, etc.

What I envisioned was getting a gun that can do everything with an emphasis on carrying it as much as I can. I understand that subcompacts and compacts are harder to shoot compared to full sizes but after shooting full sized handguns like the beretta 92fs and ruger sr1911, I know myself and I know gonna get lazy and slack off with carrying if all I own is a government model 1911. (Which feels like a handcannon for me)

Just set your expectations accordingly. A full size will be more accurate at distance so don't start out target shooting at 50 feet (with either really). Start at about 5 - 7 yards and get comfortable and accurate with it then move it back to say 7-9 yards. And then further if you're good at that distance.

I think his expectations are realistic in terms of the size gun he’s going to be willing to carry. Not so sure about the unicorn that can do everything though, lol. I wouldn’t recommend a 1911 as a carry gun for a new gun owner. I carry a subcompact (365) for comfort/concealability/capacity. I applaud those who can pull off carrying the full sized duty pistols, I suppose if I really wanted to I could adjust, I just don’t see the need and I carry all day every day in office clothes and it’s just easier. If I worked outside, more casual attire, free state etc. I might go w the full size.
 
I wanna try out subcompacts that are on the bigger end that can hit that 10 round capacity and absorb the recoil more than say a G43. Next time Im at the range Ill be looking into pieces like a G43x, or 45 or 48.
Try a Sig P365, you may not like it as much as some others, but it definitely belongs on the try before buy list.
 
So the roster only applies to dealers and not the guy buying it?
Do a little light reading of MGL C. 140 S. 123 - "licensee" here is a MA Dealer's License (not a LTC). It describes the testing procedures a gun has to go thru to make that EOPS List and the penalties for a dealer transferring anything not on that list or "grandfathered". It does NOT apply to normal folks with only a LTC.

When you asked what an eFA-10 is, your question (along with your confusion about the EOPS List) tells me that the instructor who taught you the MSP BFS course sucked and didn't teach info that is really essential to all gun owners in Mass.
 
Do a little light reading of MGL C. 140 S. 123 - "licensee" here is a MA Dealer's License (not a LTC). It describes the testing procedures a gun has to go thru to make that EOPS List and the penalties for a dealer transferring anything not on that list or "grandfathered". It does NOT apply to normal folks with only a LTC.

When you asked what an eFA-10 is, your question (along with your confusion about the EOPS List) tells me that the instructor who taught you the MSP BFS course sucked and didn't teach info that is really essential to all gun owners in Mass.

Just finished skimming it; thanks for letting me know about this stuff --- I had no idea. Are there any other resources on this forum or online that I should read/familiarize myself with before I purchase a firearm in the near future? Politics aside, I honestly feel like a lot of the laws are unclear on purpose and they're trying to dig as many legal landmines as possible for you to watch out for.

Also, I'm 5' 6", 175lbs and with a Vedders IWB Lightuck holster, I don't print with my VP9, and I carry it year round. You'd be surprised what you can conceal with the right setup.

May I ask how you exactly conceal carry a gun that big? Do you need one of those special gun belts to comfortably carry a handgun that big, or is it something you just learn to deal with? I could see conceal carrying a full size easy in the winter, but later in the summer when it's 90 degrees w/ humidity or when you're working up a sweat I can also see it being no fun very quickly. This is one of the reasons why I'm interested in a subcompact that's a little on the bigger end like a Glock 43X or even a compact; something that is still concealable, but not sacrificing so much for the concealability department that it's difficult to shoot.
 
If you haven't already, you should consider joining GOAL. Lots of great info/education through them.

As for carrying the VP9, it doesn't bother me at all. I carry around the 4 o'clock position, and it nestles right in there. I do have a gun belt, but nothing crazy that doesn't look like a regular leather belt. I got mine through Beltman. It's a quality leather belt with a stiffener inside it.

I'd also recommend the G19 while you're looking at Glocks. I don't know the whole Glock lineup, so the 19 may be comparable to some of the others you mentioned. I'm thinking the 45 or 48?

Honestly, if you're in the Central MA area and ever want to meet up and try my setup I have, let me know. Either way, you definitely want something that you're both comfortable shooting and carrying, which you seem pretty aware of. So many people buy a gun, put some rounds through it, and feel like it isn't comfortable to carry, so it becomes a safe queen. Kind of defeats the purpose.
 
Just finished skimming it; thanks for letting me know about this stuff --- I had no idea. Are there any other resources on this forum or online that I should read/familiarize myself with before I purchase a firearm in the near future? Politics aside, I honestly feel like a lot of the laws are unclear on purpose and they're trying to dig as many legal landmines as possible for you to watch out for.

May I ask how you exactly conceal carry a gun that big? Do you need one of those special gun belts to comfortably carry a handgun that big, or is it something you just learn to deal with? I could see conceal carrying a full size easy in the winter, but later in the summer when it's 90 degrees w/ humidity or when you're working up a sweat I can also see it being no fun very quickly. This is one of the reasons why I'm interested in a subcompact that's a little on the bigger end like a Glock 43X or even a compact; something that is still concealable, but not sacrificing so much for the concealability department that it's difficult to shoot.
Nothing in that section of law applies to the gun-owner, it's good to know just so you understand that "it's not your problem" (it's the dealer's problem).

In the Spring I'll be starting up my Mass Gun Law by and for Non-Lawyers seminar again. It will be run in NH and likely at Londonderry F&G Club. It'll be posted in the Training forum here as well as my website. 2A Training This assumes that we aren't in another house-arrest-lockdown due to CV-21 at that time.

As for CCW a full-size gun, it all depends on the holster and belt plus pant sizes may need to be increased to account for the gun/holster for IWB carry. I carried a full-size 1911 in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II horse-hide IWB holster for ~3 yrs and it was quite comfortable. I was probably 160-170# and 5'8" at the time. I wear a Wilderness Tactical 5-stitch Instructor belt and for dress-up I have a couple of nice leather gun belts that look normal but are built to avoid holster droop.

WILDERNESS TACTICAL PRODUCTS TACTICAL INSTRUCTOR BELT | Brownells

If you do a search on NES for belts you will find some good recommendations for good leather gun belts.

As someone voiced above, I also don't recommend CCW until you get a lot more instruction on self-defense laws, significant experience drawing/shooting/re-holstering on a range and a defensive handgun class or two. A good primer for training is the NRA Personal Protection classes, as you spend considerable time learning the issues surrounding a self-defense shooting and what to expect afterward. I hope to re-start teaching those classes in late Spring as well, CV-21 dependant.
 
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