10 dead after teen shooting rampage at German school

doobie

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10 dead after teen shooting rampage at German school

It's a good thing most of Germany is a gun free zone, including schools.

(CNN) -- A 17-year-old former student, dressed in military gear, killed at least 10 people when he opened fire at a school in southwest Germany on Wednesday morning, police said.
Emergency services arrive on the scene at the Albertville-School in Winnenden.

The shootings took place at the Albertville-Realschule Winnenden school.

Several others were wounded in the shooting in the small town of Winnenden, about 20 kilometers (12 miles) northeast of Stuttgart.

The exact number of casualties was still not known, said police spokesman Herr Brenner.

The shootings happened at the Albertville-Realschule Winnenden school, a junior high school, about 9:30 a.m. About 1,000 students attend the school Map of the area »

Authorities sealed the town off and launched an intense manhunt for the gunman. Police said he is about 5'11, is 17 years old and is heavily armed. Video Watch more about the shootings »

Security at German schools has been an issue in the past. In November 2006, an 18-year-old former student strapped explosives to his body and went on a rampage at a middle school in western Germany, shooting and wounding six people -- most of them students -- before killing himself.

In July 2003, a 16-year-old student shot a teacher before taking his own life at a school in the southern German town of Coburg.

A year earlier, 18 people were killed when an expelled student went on a shooting spree at his school in eastern Germany.
 
Can you imagine what might have happened if it HADN'T happened in a gun free zone? Someone might have tried to "self-help"!

God forbid we let that happen, Germany is a progressive society - only trained professionals should take care of that.
 
German gun law is not as restrictive as England and most of europe.

I realize that, I'm just feigning surprise. The Michael Moore's of the world would like us to believe teen violence is a purely American issue driven by our 'unique gun culture'

Teen violence is a problem period. People are going to snap from time-to-time and there's not a whole lot you can do about it other then being prepared to deal with it when/if it happens.

If it's not a gun it's going to be some guy on a bus decapitating a stranger and eating him. There are f-ed up people in the world. The more people, the more likely you're going to get some nut-bag.
 
I realize that, I'm just feigning surprise. The Michael Moore's of the world would like us to believe teen violence is a purely American issue driven by our 'unique gun culture'

Teen violence is a problem period. People are going to snap from time-to-time and there's not a whole lot you can do about it other then being prepared to deal with it when/if it happens.

If it's not a gun it's going to be some guy on a bus decapitating a stranger and eating him. There are f-ed up people in the world. The more people, the more likely you're going to get some nut-bag.

Don't waste your breath. Anyone so xenophilic isn't going to be swayed by your point. He will simply claim it was American influence that caused the kid to do this.

That is the biggest problem with Moore. He takes actual facts, damning facts that he is good at both discovering and turning into a narrative and spins that narrative far beyond what the facts support. Usually to support his ideology.
 
Sad for the kids & parents involved. Germany has some pretty tough gun laws....my uncle living over there thinks that our MA laws are leniant. [thinking]

Hmmm....shootings in AL & Germany within 24 hours of each other, & I've lived in both places.....very strange.
 
AFTER ATTACKS, EUROPEAN COUNTRIES MOVE TO TIGHTEN GUN LAWS

By MATTI HUUHTANEN, Associated Press Writer Matti Huuhtanen, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 5 mins ago

HELSINKI – Several European countries have restricted gun laws in the wake of school massacres, gang violence and other gun-related crimes:

_Finland announced plans Wednesday to impose stricter restrictions on firearms, including raising the minimum age for handgun ownership from 15 to 20. The proposal was prompted by two school massacres within a year in which lone gunmen opened fire on classmates and teachers.

_Germany, where a gunman killed at least 11 people Wednesday, raised the legal age for owning recreational firearms from 18 to 21 following a 2002 shooting in Erfurt that killed 16 people, including 12 teachers.

_Belgian lawmakers passed strict new gun control laws in 2006 in reaction to the racially motivated shooting deaths of a toddler and her black baby sitter in Antwerp.

_Swiss citizens are demanding a referendum aimed at confining army weapons to military compounds and banning private purchases of pump-action rifles and automatic weapons — following a spate of suicides and homicides.

_The Portuguese Parliament is currently discussing a government proposal to tighten gun laws, including denying bail to anyone suspected of a gun crime.

_Denmark's government said last week it will raise the penalty for illegal gun possession as part of a crackdown on gang violence that has killed three people and injured 25 in recent months.

_European Union lawmakers proposed tighter gun control across the bloc last year, including guidelines saying that only people over 18 not deemed a threat to public safety could buy and keep guns. EU members have until 2010 to adopt the measures.

In addition, some U.S. states have recently tightened gun laws as well:

• Colorado, a year after the 1999 Columbine High School shootings, made it a felony to buy a firearm for another person who should know the transaction is illegal, barred anyone from giving a firearm to a juvenile without the consent of the parents; made it illegal for a person not to try to prevent a juvenile from committing a gun crime; and increased the penalty for possession of a weapon by a felon.

But three years later, the state expanded gun rights instead, by requiring sheriffs to issue gun permits to people who pass a criminal background check, prohibiting local governments from making gun laws more restrictive than the state's, and abolishing local registries of gun owners.

• In Virginia, where a student killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007 before committing suicide April 16, 2007, the governor signed an executive order requiring that anyone ordered by a court to get mental health treatment be added to a database of people barred from buying guns.
 
My condolences to the families affected by this tragedy !

Obviously 16 dead[sad2] plus the 17 yo shooter, who seems to have been shot by police.
The media are in full hype and the usually suspect politicos are coming out of their holes.
We are in deep shit...............
 
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My condolences to the families affected by this tragedy !

Obviously 16 dead[sad2] plus the 17 yo shooter, who seems to have been shot by police.
The media are in full hype and the usually suspect politocos are coming out of their holes.
We are in deep shit...............

We all are, bud. The stinkin' little Globalists want to make this world what it once was -- a barren molten rock devoid of life.
 
My condolences to the families affected by this tragedy !

Obviously 16 dead[sad2] plus the 17 yo shooter, who seems to have been shot by police.
The media are in full hype and the usually suspect politocos are coming out of their holes.
We are in deep shit...............


Sorry to hear that. Condolences to the familes of course & condolences to you law-abiding gun owners who will suffer as well. [sad2]
 
It's far worse then that, especially when you factor in the terrible self defense laws in most of western europe.

-Mike

Well, so long as you can own the guns, the self defense laws are less of a concern to me so I wasn't counting those. I was looking at things like availability, possession, etc. They even have a may issue carry policy which I suspect is Boston/cambridge/somerville like in it's application.
 
We are to jump through some hoops, but legal gun ownership is not too much of a problem. Highly regulated, but nevertheless.
Self defense is OK, as long as there is a "clear and present danger to life".
CCW is an almost absolute no-no with very few exceptions; i.e. being a
politico up from a certain level.

However, this tragedy will fuel the anti's agenda in an election year[angry]
 
CCW is an almost absolute no-no with very few exceptions; i.e. being a politico up from a certain level.

Yeah, you have to love the good for the goose but not the gander attitude of politicians. The fact that a group of individuals known to be the biggest liars, cheats and thieves can say with a straight face that they are the only ones moral enough to carry a firearm for protection is mind boggling. But what really escapes me is the fact that the populace buys it.[thinking]
 
I just read the book "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell. He points to school shootings as one of a number of "epidemic" behaviors. He had other compelling examples, the drop in crime on New York Subways due to changes in social cues (grafitti was erased, fare-jumpers were arrested). The most startling was an epidemic of teenage suicides in Micronesia, where the suicide rate jumped to more than ten times that of any other country, in a short span of time due to one charismatic incident.

And more generally, when people start being exposed to stories or examples, there is some fraction of the population who will follow along and repeat the actions. So while in absolute terms, school shootings is not something that is common, it is something that the media can spin up to cause other people to want to copy it. The media coverage of these things is a serious factor in causing other people to think it's ok. It would be nice to see the owners of the newspapers and television stations sent to jail, as a public safety precaution, instead of legal gun owners being punished.
 
Germany, where a gunman killed at least 11 people Wednesday, raised the legal age for owning recreational firearms from 18 to 21 following a 2002 shooting in Erfurt that killed 16 people, including 12 teachers.
And yet, the shooter on Wednesday was 17.

Do any of these morons ever bother to see if the knee-jerk law that they just passed is EFFECTIVE???

No, don't bother to answer. I know the answer. [sad]
 
Ross, you're absolutely right and preaching to the choir[smile]

Police just held a press conference, which has ended at least some of the speculations flying around.
The kid killed 15 people and himself, wounding several more including 2 cops.

The gun was one of the kid's father's legally owned 16, stored unsecured. Guess, Dad is rightfully in very deep poopoo now which will unfortunately not bring back the lives lost.
 
More gun control is not the answer but of course those in power are not interested in the answer they are interested in control.
My condolences to the families and friends of the victims.
 
Some updates and vital stats. Another situation where a gun free zone created a virtual buffet of victims. He was methodical and controlled which resulted in a brutal kill rate.

From: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/03/11/germany.school.shooting/index.html

  • The shooting at the Albertville-Realschule Winnenden school began around 9:45 a.m. (4:45 a.m. EDT) and lasted about two minutes.
  • Kretschmer did not shoot wildly, Rech said, contradicting earlier police statements, but hit most of his victims in the head.
  • In that two minutes at the school he killed about 12 people(9 students).
  • Police response caused the kid to run.
  • The best defense anyone could put up was to sacrifice themselves for the students
    a teacher who had blood on his hands because he wanted to help a female teacher who sacrificed herself for a student -- she stood in front of a student to protect her.
  • He was on the run for about 3 hours before his crappy driving caused a car wreck and he was forced to steal another car from a dealership, where he ran into off duty police who stopped him.
 
My boss is from Stuttgart, the metro in which this tragedy took place. He consistently makes jokes at how ridicules this country is in allowing so many people to have guns. He feels his fatherlands gun control laws are much more effective, and generally adequate.

He is on vacation, I haven't talked to him since this, and I hope to no end that none of his friends/family were affected by this heinous act. But I do hope this also makes he and his ilk aware that even these progressive controls don not equal protection.

Germany would have been better off spending some of its massive tax burden arming the teachers of this school.
 
So you are suggesting a law that would make it illegal to murder other people? Kind of radical. You must be a libertarian.

Guilty as charged.

My boss is from Stuttgart, the metro in which this tragedy took place. He consistently makes jokes at how ridicules this country is in allowing so many people to have guns. He feels his fatherlands gun control laws are much more effective, and generally adequate.

He is on vacation, I haven't talked to him since this, and I hope to no end that none of his friends/family were affected by this heinous act. But I do hope this also makes he and his ilk aware that even these progressive controls don not equal protection.

Germany would have been better off spending some of its massive tax burden arming the teachers of this school.

Ja! Our new lawz are ze best in ze world. No guns for ze commerz. Only for ze government hacks. Now get in ze freight car!
 
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