03 FFL C&R Massachusetts

Khackz

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
78
Likes
59
Hey all,

New member here, was looking for some info pertaining to the C&R FFL. I was wondering what benefits it brings as an LTC holder. I know some of the Colt Sporter SP1’s are over 50 years old so they qualify but I was wondering if there are any other terms for the firearm to qualify other than what’s on the atf website.

Also can this weapon still fire? Or does it have to be neutered?

Thanks guys!
 

Mesatchornug

NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
8,964
Likes
16,291
Location
People's Republik
 

Picton

NES Member
Rating - 100%
36   0   0
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
26,486
Likes
47,877
Location
MA

You can get qualifying firearms shipped direct to your porch without going through an FFL. Of course these firearms don’t have to be neutered.

As for whether it’s useful to you? Depends on your buying interests.
 

microwave900

NES Member
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
274
Likes
491
Location
Inside 128
I highly recommend getting it if you are interested in acquiring multiple old guns, if you can be around to sign for packages. The amount you save on transfer fees alone is worth it. It also simplifies in-person purchases too, especially out of state.

The guns in question must be either 50+ years old, on that ATF list, or must derive a majority of their value from their historical connections (like, say, a gun owned by a famous person). It’s not just SP1s, there are thousands and thousands of guns made before 1972 that are all available to you as easy as buying, say, ammo online.

I have not found it terribly helpful with acquiring ammo, mags, or discounts but that’s alright, anyone with an LTC can get those things pretty easily anyway.

Many dealers don’t want to deal with C&R, or they don’t want to deal with Massachusetts. But there are enough who will that it is a nice thing to have.

The license is easy to get and relatively fast. If you can pass NICS you will get it. In terms of privacy: the ATF can knock on your door and ask to do an inspection but you can request that it be done some other time at their office. In 2020 the ATF inspected 3 of the 54,000 C&R licensees in America. Three. And you do have to retain records of all acquisitions/dispositions of qualifying guns but if you let your license expire every three years you are not required to keep the records. You do have to notify your CLEO that you are applying, but just send it to whoever issued your LTC, they already know you have guns. One of the few benefits of the MA LTC system: you already have no privacy in gun ownership from law enforcement ;)

There are some minor benefits as well: no worries about the roster for old guns, being able to ship any of your own guns back to your house while traveling (FedEx/UPS want to see an FFL), being able to demonstrate that you are not a prohibited person if anyone asks, slightly easier Garand ordering from the CMP, it is a stepping stone to a MA machine gun license, and generally a better understanding of the firearms industry/ATF through personal experience.

Oh and I forgot, if you’re out of state and you see an old gun at a yard sale you can actually buy it! Been waiting for this to happen to me!
 
Last edited:

Khackz

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
78
Likes
59
I highly recommend getting it if you are interested in acquiring multiple old guns, if you can be around to sign for packages. The amount you save on transfer fees alone is worth it. It also simplifies in-person purchases too, especially out of state.

The guns in question must be either 50+ years old, on that ATF list, or must derive a majority of their value from their historical connections (like, say, a gun owned by a famous person). It’s not just SP1s, there are thousands and thousands of guns made before 1972 that are all available to you as easy as buying, say, ammo online.

I have not found it terribly helpful with acquiring ammo, mags, or discounts but that’s alright, anyone with an LTC can get those things pretty easily anyway.

Many dealers don’t want to deal with C&R, or they don’t want to deal with Massachusetts. But there are enough who will that it is a nice thing to have.

The license is easy to get and relatively fast. If you can pass NICS you will get it. In terms of privacy: the ATF can knock on your door and ask to do an inspection but you can request that it be done some other time at their office. In 2020 the ATF inspected 3 of the 54,000 C&R licensees in America. Three. And you do have to retain records of all acquisitions/dispositions of qualifying guns but if you let your license expire every three years you are not required to keep the records. You do have to notify your CLEO that you are applying, but just send it to whoever issued your LTC, they already know you have guns. One of the few benefits of the MA LTC system: you already have no privacy in gun ownership from law enforcement ;)

There are some minor benefits as well: no worries about the roster for old guns, being able to ship any of your own guns back to your house while traveling (FedEx/UPS want to see an FFL), being able to demonstrate that you are not a prohibited person if anyone asks, slightly easier Garand ordering from the CMP, it is a stepping stone to a MA machine gun license, and generally a better understanding of the firearms industry/ATF through personal experience.

Oh and I forgot, if you’re out of state and you see an old gun at a yard sale you can actually buy it! Been waiting for this to happen to me!
Awesome info thank you for that! I've been reading the above mentioned threads too. Very helpful.

I just sent my application in this morning and delivered a copy to the CLEO.

Also, where is a good site or place to look for old guns? I havent found many sites that deal with C&R exclusively. Any recommendations?
 
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
7,118
Likes
13,107
Location
NH
Also, where is a good site or place to look for old guns? I havent found many sites that deal with C&R exclusively. Any recommendations?

Welcome, I've been a C&R holder for many years, it's definitely been worth it for me.
 

Mark from MA

NES Member
Rating - 100%
55   0   0
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
8,538
Likes
6,887
Ive had it for years. Though I don't buy much on it, there are occasional old hunting guns that I can buy on the 03. Makes it much easier.
 

Dennis in MA

NES Member
Rating - 100%
25   0   0
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
33,798
Likes
27,505
It's not the good old days for sure. And yeah, 20 years ago, I dreamed of C&R SP1's. I'm sure they run at an even BIGGER premium than regular preban SP1's. That, and I suspect AWB's are D-E-A-D within 2 years, it seems like wasted $. Unless you want an original SP1.
 

APFSDS

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Jul 8, 2021
Messages
230
Likes
402
Location
North Central MA
I have had it for about a year but have never used it. For 10 bucks a year it's nice to have though in case I see a cool milsurp or lever action I want. I have contacted a few places about shipping me C&R pistols, but even when I send them a link to the MGL section saying it's legal to sell off-roster C&R pistols to an 03 license holder they won't do it.
 

Khackz

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
78
Likes
59
Does the firearm also have to be in original configuration? I’ve seen some long rifles with synthetic stocks instead of the original wood stock.
 

KBCraig

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
17,647
Likes
17,855
Location
Granite State of Mind
Does the firearm also have to be in original configuration? I’ve seen some long rifles with synthetic stocks instead of the original wood stock.
According to the ATF's (mis)interpretation, any military arms must be in "original military configuration" to retain C&R status.

I say that's a misinterpretation, because the actual law says anything over 50 years old is C&R, then goes on to list pre-1949 military rifles as C&R. At the time the law passed, many milsurps were less than 50 years old; the law intended them to be included, but only in their original military (non-sporterized) configuration.

A plain reading of the law says that once they turn 50, they're C&R no matter what furniture they wear. ATF disagrees, but they've never been known for reading comprehension.

They insist that, "Once X, always X." Well, unless it doesn't suit them. I knew of a case over 20 years ago where a man had bought a ton of pre-1899 antique Mausers. Some were junkers, some were bare receivers; many were Century U-Fix-ems missing all operational parts. None of them were legally "firearms" under the GCA, because they were pre-'99 "antiques".

He refurbished them, attached modern barrels and furniture to them, and sold them as what they legally were: pre-'99 antique non-firearms.

ATF didn't care for that, so they sent him a Cease & Desist and threatened to prosecute him for illegally "remanufacturing" without a license.

There is no such thing in the law as "remanufacturing". He wasn't manufacturing, because the "firearm part" had already been manufactured. It wasn't legally a firearm, because it was pre-'99.

And yet, they shut him down.
 

Broc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
47,203
Likes
87,185
The first purchase pays for the license in the form of no FFL transfer.

I yearn for the days of $99 M91/30s. Should have bought more.
This. I bought an Argentine carbine a few days ago and I will have to pay a transfer fee because I forgot to renew my C&R :(

That also means driving to the FFL, doing paperwork ...

One day I will get off my a** and send the paperwork again.
 

microwave900

NES Member
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
274
Likes
491
Location
Inside 128
I have had it for about a year but have never used it. For 10 bucks a year it's nice to have though in case I see a cool milsurp or lever action I want. I have contacted a few places about shipping me C&R pistols, but even when I send them a link to the MGL section saying it's legal to sell off-roster C&R pistols to an 03 license holder they won't do it.
Yeah I pretty much gave up on convincing people to start dealing with MA. Lots of people in free states don’t care to learn what the rules are or they hear about interstate threats sent by NY and NJ (MA used to do this too) and they just back away slowly with fear in their fuddy little eyes. I was successful exactly once at convincing someone to start selling ammo into MA, but I took a gamble and placed a $500 order first so he’d have the dollar signs dancing in front of him while he decided. After about a year he shifted to only shipping to 01 and 07 FFLs in MA.

The best bet is finding someone who is already knowledgeable about MA specifically, or someone who is already so massively pro-gun that they’ll just send it.
 

LLF

NES Member
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
635
Likes
886
Location
Wuville
I have had it for about a year but have never used it. For 10 bucks a year it's nice to have though in case I see a cool milsurp or lever action I want. I have contacted a few places about shipping me C&R pistols, but even when I send them a link to the MGL section saying it's legal to sell off-roster C&R pistols to an 03 license holder they won't do it.
They have read Maura's BS about gun sales in MA and just don't want to deal with potential MA crap -- even though a C&R is a federal license and Maura has no jurisdiction over federal licenses.
 

LLF

NES Member
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
635
Likes
886
Location
Wuville
Hey all,

New member here, was looking for some info pertaining to the C&R FFL. I was wondering what benefits it brings as an LTC holder. I know some of the Colt Sporter SP1’s are over 50 years old so they qualify but I was wondering if there are any other terms for the firearm to qualify other than what’s on the atf website.

Also can this weapon still fire? Or does it have to be neutered?

Thanks guys!
I got my first C&R in 2017. Went to a gun shop that specializes in C&R guns where an old-timer watched me shell out numerous Benjamins for a Luger P08 and a Walther P. 38. He looked at me and smiled and said a C&R is "the most expensive $30 you'll ever spend."
 

gerrycaruso

NES Member
Rating - 100%
22   0   0
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
4,595
Likes
4,035
Location
westford
I first got an 03FFL so I could get a machinegun license but it's been useful. As others have mentioned, you'll get a discount even though it's not a dealer's license. Some places that won't ship to Ma will ship to an 03ffl. Some places won't recognize an 03FFL from Ma, even though it's a federal license.
 
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
200
Likes
278
03 FFL is a must have. Just being able to have C&R firearms shipped to your door alone makes it worth it if you ever see yourself being in the market for something considered a C&R.

Pro Tip: try to schedule deliveries for when your home. UPS delivered my CMP Garand a few hours early and I was not there to sign for it. Luckily they called me and I was able to have them drop it at a nearby UPS shipping location. While a bit unnerving my rifle was not at the intended location, I had a big shit eating grin on my face as I picked it up from my local Walgreens!
 

BigGreen2000

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
358
Likes
326
Location
The 413
According to the ATF's (mis)interpretation, any military arms must be in "original military configuration" to retain C&R status.

I say that's a misinterpretation, because the actual law says anything over 50 years old is C&R, then goes on to list pre-1949 military rifles as C&R. At the time the law passed, many milsurps were less than 50 years old; the law intended them to be included, but only in their original military (non-sporterized) configuration.

A plain reading of the law says that once they turn 50, they're C&R no matter what furniture they wear. ATF disagrees, but they've never been known for reading comprehension.

They insist that, "Once X, always X." Well, unless it doesn't suit them. I knew of a case over 20 years ago where a man had bought a ton of pre-1899 antique Mausers. Some were junkers, some were bare receivers; many were Century U-Fix-ems missing all operational parts. None of them were legally "firearms" under the GCA, because they were pre-'99 "antiques".

He refurbished them, attached modern barrels and furniture to them, and sold them as what they legally were: pre-'99 antique non-firearms.

ATF didn't care for that, so they sent him a Cease & Desist and threatened to prosecute him for illegally "remanufacturing" without a license.

There is no such thing in the law as "remanufacturing". He wasn't manufacturing, because the "firearm part" had already been manufactured. It wasn't legally a firearm, because it was pre-'99.

And yet, they shut him down.
So if a 1903 bare receiver is not C&R because it is “not in original configuration,” does it become C&R once built up again?
 

namedpipes

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
42,377
Likes
40,666
Location
The foothills of Monadnock

You can get qualifying firearms shipped direct to your porch without going through an FFL. Of course these firearms don’t have to be neutered.

As for whether it’s useful to you? Depends on your buying interests.

You're supposed to just shout DUPE!
 

not new guy

NES Member
Rating - 100%
81   0   0
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
32,311
Likes
44,162
Are 03s identified publicly by name and address, like other FFLs? It doesn't look like it based on a quick search but I want to confirm.
 
Top Bottom