“Lax” Gun Laws in Alabama to Blame for Grey Market Gun Trafficking in Chicago and Michigan

[Dennis in MA]

Why does an Alabama TV station give two rats patoots about this issue??? Shouldn't this be a story from Jersey or NYC or Chicago??

I take umbrage with that attack from you. Am I in support of more gun laws? Absolutely not. Btw, I am a Trump voter. Search my posts. We are nation of laws. You are a student of law. It’s a much different world than the early 1900’s. Waaaaay different. Simple question: If you lived in Alabama and had a loaded gun stolen from your vehicle what would you do? You wouldn’t care? It’s now another state’s problem? I would say there is a vastly different condition of society vs the pastoral days of the 1900’s. Let’s be cordial here.

I would venture a guess that the increase in laws has allowed an increase in responsibility and politeness in our society. If we reverted back to 1900-era laws, there would be some initial turmoil. Then crap would settle down. But a politician's only tool is more legislation. Ergo, we have more legislation.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure CA. does too. I know that their safe storage laws denied someone their ability to fight against a person that ended up murdering their siblings: The Merced Pitchfork Murders - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

According to the Giffords' website, Mass is the only one with the total storage law:

Safe Storage | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Obviously take their information with a mine of salt, but they're in the business of gun banning. This would be something they would monitor.

 

[enbloc]

 

[wahsben]

According to the Giffords' website, Mass is the only one with the total storage law:

Safe Storage | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Obviously take their information with a mine of salt, but they're in the business of gun banning. This would be something they would monitor.

In doing some other checking it looks like that's correct. Here's a good article about safe storage laws: Not-so Safe-Storage Laws It used to be that children were raised with responsibility, now many are raised to blame everyone and everything else. When I was growing up guns were almost always unlocked. In a closet, in a corner of a room or sitting on a rack. The only guns that I ever saw locked up were ones that an uncle of mine owned and they were in a wooden cabinet with glass doors so easily accessed if necessary.

 

[DJBrad]

In doing some other checking it looks like that's correct. Here's a good article about safe storage laws: Not-so Safe-Storage Laws It used to be that children were raised with responsibility, now many are raised to blame everyone and everything else. When I was growing up guns were almost always unlocked. In a closet, in a corner of a room or sitting on a rack. The only guns that I ever saw locked up were ones that an uncle of mine owned and they were in a wooden cabinet with glass doors so easily accessed if necessary.

That’s an excellent article. Children are raised on Fortnite, Tiktok, Snapchat, etc., and they have their own groupthink. There is very little parental responsibility. Consider the kids in Mad Max and the Thunderdome. Only that the current generation is not limited to sand and rusty parts. Soon the voting age may be 12. Rather than speak to a greater issue with society that would be beyond the confines of a single thread I think personal responsibility is the key.

I would love:
1. Much less government
2. Much less lawyers
3. Much less police
4. Much more teaching about civics, history, and “loving thy neighbor”.
5. Many more guns and much more personal responsibility.

 

[76Too]

Its Alabama's fault now? I thought it was indiana.

it is...according to them.

it really is like the Wild West here in Indy though. And I couldn’t be happier.

 

[timbo]

It's typical of liberal progressive thought...don't take responsibility for your failures...blame it on someone else that's most likely innocent.

 

[jhblaze1]

obviously....it's always the other states' fault. MA blames NH/ME/VT

 

[rivet_42]

Back in the '80s NYC was blaming Virginia as the first state going south along I95 with "lax" gun laws, that's what prompted VA to pass their "one-a-month" law in 1993. Quick bit of research says that law was repealed in 2012.

 

[garandman]

Politicians in Boston: “We have gun violence problems because Maine & NH have lax gun laws.”
Me: “That’s odd, those states have much, much lower rates of violent crime than Boston does.”
Politicians: “Derp.”

 

[MisterHappy]

My friend I do not support criminalizing anyone for storage laws. How do you feel about the Holyoke Grandpa? I have a feeling you dont have children.

Who was harmed? What property was damaged?

 

[DJBrad]

Who was harmed? What property was damaged?

Nobody was harmed and no property damaged. Not guilty in my eyes but his irresponsible action should face some consequence. The LCO will surely take away his LTC due to endangerment or storage laws. Community service maybe? He may have already learned a hard lesson. A person like that may turn into an Anti as well.

 

[MisterHappy]

Nobody was harmed and no property damaged. Not guilty in my eyes but his irresponsible action should face some consequence. The LCO will surely take away his LTC due to endangerment or storage laws. Community service maybe? He may have already learned a hard lesson. A person like that may turn into an Anti as well.

If there's no harm to people or property, why should he face any consequences? Your operating theory is that something could have gone wrong, so there must be punishment.

This is why a person, living alone, cannot lawfully leave a revolver on the kitchen table, without a trigger lock that can be removed in 10 seconds with a screwdriver. You seem to think that leaving it on the table where someone breaking another law (or several other laws) is the problem. Because it was not "secure enough."

What else is too dangerous to leave unattended?

Your position is the first step of the gun grabber: since somebody could commit crimes with an AR with a 20-round mag, nobody should have them. It's a reasonable restriction.

 

[DJBrad]

If there's no harm to people or property, why should he face any consequences? Your operating theory is that something could have gone wrong, so there must be punishment.

This is why a person, living alone, cannot lawfully leave a revolver on the kitchen table, without a trigger lock that can be removed in 10 seconds with a screwdriver. You seem to think that leaving it on the table where someone breaking another law (or several other laws) is the problem. Because it was not "secure enough."

What else is too dangerous to leave unattended?

Your position is the first step of the gun grabber: since somebody could commit crimes with an AR with a 20-round mag, nobody should have them. It's a reasonable restriction.

I’m open to be taught on these matters. I would be remiss if I didn’t consider a single person living alone, that needed protection for self preservation, and was subsequently killed because they didn’t have time to open a cheap trigger lock. “Lady, I didn’t tell you this but don’t keep that revolver locked up! Keep it ready to fire!”

I am certainly not against any mag capacity or type of gun. Actually I would love to see the NFA of ‘34 and GCA of ‘68 go bye bye for good. I should be able to own and use a silencer/suppressor on a fully automatic AR.

Maybe I am wrong for feeling he should face a consequence. First time offense maybe he should face nothing. I didn’t research his character or history so I don’t know. I did not emphatically state what it should be which is why I said he maybe already learned his lesson and/or might swing 180 degrees against guns.

You are a Hunting Education Teacher. Should people follow your regulations in class, and if they don’t in the field, should they face a consequence? Since storage laws are actual laws here in MA I’m sure you touch on that in your class. Do you say to the students they can carry their loaded guns in plain view in the back seat of their vehicle? Loaded on the way from the car to the field? Loaded within the vicinity of dwellings and paved roads/highways? Honestly should we follow those laws too? Of course they are for “Hunter safety” but if a hunter fails to follow them many hunters on NES would be happy to chastise him for breaking the law and losing his game, his gear, his guns, AND his license. You and I both know an EPO may not be so forgiving.

How are “Hunter Safety laws” different from a “storage law”?

Again, I digress to my humble opinion. I follow storage laws and I also follow hunter safety laws.

 

[Broc]

Well, Mexico is at risk from the ATF.

 

[DJBrad]

Well, Mexico is at risk from the ATF.

Where’s Eric when you need him?

 

[Broc]

So much fail, from the ATF, not surprised. Here is one:

Watson says another problem is the lack of gun registration requirements here make it difficult for law enforcement to determine if a gun was stolen or not in certain crimes.

I forget if it was S Carolina or N Carolina, that had a program, every gun had to be shot and the casing sent over to an agency so if someone committed a crime, the cops would know which gun was used and could trace it back. Or some stupid BS like that.

The program went on for a few years and guess how many crimes they solved ... if you guessed 0, you got it right.

So, did registration, and keeping a database of fired casings, stop crimes? - it didn't.

But I will tell you who contributed to crimes - The ATF. They contributed by sending rifles, on purpose, to Mexico and then lost track of those rifles. So, the guys committing crimes are telling us some State needs stricter gun laws to prevent crime in another State. GTFO.

 

[DJBrad]

So much fail, from the ATF, not surprised. Here is one:



I forget if it was S Carolina or N Carolina, that had a program, every gun had to be shot and the casing sent over to an agency so if someone committed a crime, the cops would know which gun was used and could trace it back. Or some stupid BS like that.

The program went on for a few years and guess how many crimes they solved ... if you guessed 0, you got it right.

So, did registration, and keeping a database of fired casings, stop crimes? - it didn't.

But I will tell you who contributed to crimes - The ATF. They contributed by sending rifles, on purpose, to Mexico and then lost track of those rifles. So, the guys committing crimes are telling us some State needs stricter gun laws to prevent crime in another State. GTFO.

Let’s abolish the ATF and the IRS. Do you agree?

 

[weekendracer]

ATF: Criminals exploiting Alabama gun laws

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms says Alabama is an easy target for criminals to get a gun. For years, we've told you about the stolen gun problems in Mobile, including last year's police campaign telling legal gun owners to lock up their weapons. The ATF says there is a strong second...

mynbc15.com

Are the storage laws “lax” in Alabama?

Being a MA resident I am biased with certain optics in this matter. I believe the loaded or unloaded gun should be in direct control of your person. Storage laws in MA are well over the top but you have to exercise prudence.

My Dad had a shotgun in his closet for years and as a young lad I would go so far as to gaze and fondle it. I knew the danger and never pulled on the trigger. The real world experience was with my grandad in Round Hill, Virginia shooting cans and such through the holiday visits. In my suburban home we never exercised our 2A rights. Now, I do that very regularly and vehemently aim to support that right as well as breed other 2A lovers.

I think leaving loaded or unloaded guns around unsecured in a vehicle or anywhere else is simply unwise in this current day and age. The thing is, we all want to have the immediate access to personal and global protection so it’s a hard choice to make. You wouldn't leave your wallet in your car over night on the street intentionally would you? We’ve had break ins in my neighborhood and cars are soft targets. What’s the balance between “shall not be infringed” and safe practice? I don’t think there is an easy answer.

I generally don't blame the victim. Assuming the guns are stolen, at what point do we draw the line on sensible gun storage laws? Do we blame the car owner when it's stolen and the thief runs someone over?

Just stop. I don't care if I leave something sitting in the open in my front yard, it's the person who steals it that is the problem.

 

[DJBrad]

I generally don't blame the victim. Assuming the guns are stolen, at what point do we draw the line on sensible gun storage laws? Do we blame the car owner when it's stolen and the thief runs someone over?

Just stop. I don't care if I leave something sitting in the open in my front yard, it's the person who steals it that is the problem.

I’m not encouraging it either and as a cop I appreciate your viewpoint. I would be happy to have no storage laws in Ma! I realize personal responsibility is the answer here.

Let’s explore the “Hunter Safety” comparison above in post #44 for critical thought.

 

[weekendracer]

I’m not encouraging it either and as a cop I appreciate your viewpoint. I would be happy to have no storage laws in Ma! I realize personal responsibility is the answer here.

Let’s explore the “Hunter Safety” comparison above in post #44 for critical thought.

The thing is, you guys north of the Mason-Dixon line have been beaten down so much, you think you have some reference point compared to the south. For almost 30 years I lived in a house with a bunch of guns in a display case with nothing but cheap glass. The case was built into the house my parents bought, so it had been there for upwards of 40 or 50 years by the time the house was washed away. We never thought anything of it. No one who ever walked into my house did either. No way you could miss it, floor to ceiling glass in the middle of the living room. They were all hunting style guns, no black rifles, but still.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Politicians in Boston: “We have gun violence problems because Maine & NH have lax gun laws.”
Me: “That’s odd, those states have much, much lower rates of violent crime than Boston does.”
Politicians: “Derp.”

Well, chah!!! (Is that a Massachusetts thing? Saying "chah" instead of "yeahhh!"). Their primary export is tourism, blueberries, lumber and violent crime.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

If it's locked up, you ain't safe. Jack.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

Interesting statements by ATF field division chief Marcus Watson:

"People know that, so this becomes a pipeline almost for firearms leaving legal commerce and then they are sold at flea markets and, etc. Buyers may not ask all the questions they should and someone a little smart and configures state laws and goes from Chicago - a place that has extreme firearms violence but has very strict state laws about purchase," said Marcus Watson.

So a lack of government involvement equals "leaving legal commerce."

"Someone may purchase 10 firearms legally, go out and shoot them, then they transfer that firearm not from dealer to dealer but individual to individual," said Watson.

The serfs should not be allowed to privately sell firearms without government involvement.

Watson says another problem is the lack of gun registration requirements here make it difficult for law enforcement to determine if a gun was stolen or not in certain crimes.

Alabama needs firearm registration for the ruled because LEAs like that. Also, private sales among the unwashed are equivalent to "gray market" sales.


The lock it up PSA campaign promoted by Public Safety Director James Barber sounds effective if it really resulted in a 35% drop in firearms stolen from vehicles.

 

[TrashcanDan]

I get the feeling that "storage laws" were brought about by some Johnny Cochran type, claiming that his client never would have used said firearm in Crime X, if the house his client "allegedly" broke into had their firearm in a place that wasn't so easily available, to his client, yo' onnor!