Smith & Wesson M&P semi-autos

**JimConway** · 03-03-2008, 10:36 AM

I strongly suggest that none of you purchase a S&W M&P. Over the past 6 months, in the course of courses, private lessons or coaching, i have shot a lot of them. For a gun sold in Massachusetts, the M&P is suppose to have a 10 pound trigger pull. I have yet to find one with a 10 pound trigger pull. I have found that the average trigger pull is about 15 pounds and found one the was about 20 pounds.
S&W has done a major disservice to the MA shooting community by allowing such monstrosities our of the plant.

You must remember that the most important interface between the firearm and the shooter is the trigger. There guns are very hard formost people to shoot with any reasonable accuracy and then only slowly.
If you must buy an M&P, please plan to send the gun to Dan Burwell (http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/) for a trigger job and to have the magazine disconnect removed.

Oddly this problem only seems to happen to guns that are MA compliant. I have a number of friends in other parts of the country that are very satisfied with the trigger pulls on their M&Ps

**M1911** · 03-03-2008, 10:49 AM

Jim:

I really hope you will rewrite that post. The M&P is a fine gun. It just needs a trigger job. And you don't have to send it to Burwell -- Greg Derr will do it as well.

You should not be writing off the gun on that basis.

**JimConway** · 03-03-2008, 11:10 AM

I have shot over 30 of these guns and have yet to see a good one.
The only difference between the guns that i have shot is that some of them were worse than others.
I should have mentioned Greg Derr. I knew that he did this work on M&Ps, but have not tried one of his guns.
I have a question for you, "why are there so many used M&Ps available for sale".

I shot one yesterday that the owner could barely keep a 3" group with at 6 yards. I gave him one of my guns and he did a perfect one hole group, except for one flyer, at the same distance
The trigger is the heart of the gun, plain and simple.
With that said, who is the next to flame me?

**M1911** · 03-03-2008, 11:21 AM

Jim:

Come on now. Reread my post. It is not a flame -- it is a polite disagreement. People will disagree and can do so without accusing each other of flaming when they are not doing so.

The M&P needs a trigger job out of the box. That is all. So why not just say that instead of saying that no one should buy an M&P?

**Chris** · 03-03-2008, 11:58 AM

Jim, next time we meet, I'll let you try my S&W M&P 40C. I think you'll be surprised.

It took me some time and some careful work, but I was able to achieve a pretty good trigger. It's no 1911 crisp glass rod, but it's not terrible.

Unfortunately the factory trigger in MA is terrible, but the 48 state version is much better and a direct drop-in. From there, it's not that hard to smooth it out even more.

I would no more stick with the MA trigger than I'd want the NY trigger on a Glock.

Honestly, I think S&W probably did the right thing. They complied with the law and made a trigger that would pass muster for the dealer and then made the 'proper' trigger an easy upgrade. Sure, it now costs a MA buyer more to get the right trigger, but S&W didn't waste a ton of dev costs to meet such a small market. I would think if the development was too expensive we might never have seen a MA compliant version.

**Fsorrent** · 03-03-2008, 12:05 PM

Traded mine in for a glock...i wasn't really satisfied either. I had the trigger work done, but wasn't happy with the overall feel of the gun. Also, I wasn't happy about the non-existence of large capacity magazines either. Also, mine had a lot of jams too. A couple were due to the magazines, but several of them were failure to eject the casing. haven't seen one failure from my Glock

**JimConway** · 03-03-2008, 12:10 PM

M1911
There is no doubt that the M&P needs a trigger job right out of the box. The problem is that no one gets one or even sends it back to Smith to get the spec trigger (Which is free)
I did not think that you were flaming me in your post. it is just that I expected to be flamed.

Chris
I would be pleased to try your S&W M&P 40C. Thanks for the offer.

**M1911** · 03-03-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by JimConway

M1911
I did not think that you were flaming me in your post.

If that is correct, then why does your response to my post read:

With that said, who is the next to flame me?

The implication of that is pretty clear to me.

If your original post was along the lines of "If you get an M&P in MA you MUST get a trigger job because out of the box it is unmanageable...", then I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

**Lugnut** · 03-03-2008, 12:37 PM

Just to be clear... a "traditional" trigger job will NOT get your there. Get the repalcement sear assembly, trigger return string and the trigger bar. A little polishing/massaging will get you a great 4-4.5lb trigger. I challenge anyone to prove to me you can get a good trigger working with the stock MA parts.

My M&Ps are SWEET!

**JimConway** · 03-03-2008, 12:52 PM

Lugnut
That sounds very nice. I have found that a smooth trigger is the most important thing, with the pull weight in second place.

Smith & Wesson M&P semi-autos

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