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  1. #1
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    Default Advice on Mag Rifles that are Mass FID Compliant

    Wondering if anyone has any advice on reasonably affordable mag fed rifles that are Mass FID compliant. Looking for something in a cartridge larger than .22

  2. #2
    Moderator M1911's Avatar
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    Perhaps a Ruger Mini-30? It is not on the roster and Ruger has only ever sold it with low capacity magazines. http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/...ap_10_2007.pdf

  3. #3
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    M1 Garand

    I presume you mean semi-autos, as ANY bolt, lever or pump gun meets FID criteria.

  4. #4

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    Ruger Mini-14
    Ruger Mini-30
    WASR-10 (single stack)
    Hi-Point 995
    Beretta CX-4 (.45 cal. only)
    H&K USC
    H&K SL8
    SKS (stripper clips)
    M1 Garand (en bloc clips)
    Last edited by Kevlar; 02-13-2010 at 07:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Moderator M1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrivener View Post
    M1 Garand
    Mmmm, better idea than the Mini-30. Much better idea.

  6. #6
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    Marlin Camp Rifle in ..45 - IF you can find one.

  7. #7

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    By definition of the law any semi-auto rifle that is not on the large capacity list as long as in your possession or your control you only have 10 or less round mags. You could have a Colt Match Target with 10 round mags and it meets the definition of the law, since a Colt Match Target is not on the list and you can readily get 10 round mags for it.

    Weapons not listed on this roster may
    also be large capacity weapons if they are semi-automatic and are capable of accepting or readily
    modifiable to accept a large capacity feeding device. Definitions of ‘capable of accepting’ and
    ‘readily modifiable to accept’ are defined in 501 CMR 7.02.
    "Capable of accepting" and "Readily modifiable to accept" definitions both require that the high cap mag be in your possession / under your direct control.
    http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/...%20CMR%207.pdf

    So an AR-15 type rifle not on the list that has 10 round mags is good to go, by letter of the law. now whether that means it's legal or not I don't know.

    The new Essential arms and RRA and Remsport names don't appear to be on the list. Of course they can always change the list and make you a criminal, so I would go with an SKS or something that has an internal magazine of 10 rounds or less.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    By definition of the law any semi-auto rifle that is not on the large capacity list as long as in your possession or your control you only have 10 or less round mags. You could have a Colt Match Target with 10 round mags and it meets the definition of the law, since a Colt Match Target is not on the list and you can readily get 10 round mags for it.

    So an AR-15 type rifle not on the list that has 10 round mags is good to go, by letter of the law. now whether that means it's legal or not I don't know..
    Utter CRAP

    "Assault weapon", shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. § 921 (a)(30), and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;. (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-1 1/9 and M-12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
    As the definition EXPRESSLY refers to AR-15 designs as an "assault weapon," your assertions are patently absurd and egregiously WRONG.
    Last edited by Scrivener; 02-13-2010 at 11:46 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrivener View Post
    Utter CRAP



    As the definition EXPRESSLY refers to AR-15 designs as an "assault weapon," your assertions are patently absurd and egregiously WRONG.
    You are confusing "Assault Weapon" with "Large Capacity" weapon. They are NOT the same and are completely independent definitions. And your assertion that the assault weapon definition expressly refers to AR-15 designs as 'assault weapons' is completely wrong.

    The large capacity roster names weapons by name. It also states again:
    This roster has been compiled in accordance with M.G.L. c.140, §1313⁄4. It contains weapons
    determined to have been originally manufactured for the civilian retail consumer market as large
    capacity weapons as defined by M.G.L. c. 140, § 121. Weapons not listed on this roster may
    also be large capacity weapons if they are semi-automatic and are capable of accepting or readily
    modifiable to accept a large capacity feeding device. Definitions of ‘capable of accepting’ and
    ‘readily modifiable to accept’ are defined in 501 CMR 7.02.

    NOTE: Unless otherwise exempted by M.G.L. c. 140, §121, the term ‘large capacity weapon’
    shall apply to all semiautomatic weapons equipped with a large capacity feeding device,
    including any such weapons not listed on this roster
    .”
    http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/...ap_10_2007.pdf


    I can't copy and paste CMR 7.02 because it is an image, but here is the link.
    http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/...%20CMR%207.pdf

    Look at the definition "capable of accepting" and readily modifiable to accept" a large capacity feeding device. Both definitions require the large capacity feeding device to be in your possession in your direct control or in the weapon.

    But NONE of this has anything to do with Assault Weapons. You seem to be confusing assault weapon with a weapon on the large capacity roster. They are completely independent.

    The FID card holder can not have a LARGE CAPACITY WEAPON as legally defined. Show me where it says anything about Assault Weapon.

    That assault weapon law expressly NAMES BY NAME the guns that are assault weapons by NAME. The Colt AR-15 model is designated as an assault weapon and is grandfathered as legal if it was made before Sep 1994. It DOES NOT refer to the AR-15 design, it refers to the Colt AR-15 or copies or duplicates which has been shown to legally mean EXACT copies or Exact duplicates. If AR-15 type guns were assault weapons made after 1994, they would be banned in MA, you would not be able to walk into any gun shop in MA and buy as many post-ban AR-15 guns you want. You can right now walk into any gun shop in MA and buy a (order if they don't have one on the shelf) Colt Match Target ( AR-15 ) because after the 1994 ban, Colt like everyone else changed the name of the models to get past the law that named the models that were assault weapons. AR-15 Type guns are readily available and legal in MA and are not assault weapons. So I fail to see the relevance of you quoting the Assault weapon definition.

    The law specifies 2 ways to define an assault weapon. By a named Model, as in Colt AR-15 or duplicate or copy, and by features as in a detachable magazine with any two of the following features. pistol grip, flash hider, bayonet lug, threaded barrel, collapsible stock. Copies or duplicates of weapons has been shown by law to mean exact copies which is why you CAN buy an AR-15 without any of those evil features on a post ban ( non-designated assault weapon) AR-15 or you can buy any one of the BANNED Assault weapons because they were made before Sep 1994 and grandfathered.

    But non of this has anything to do with the Large Capacity List at the beginning of this thread. A post ban Rock River Arms LAR-15 is NOT an assault weapon when it has none of the evil features. It is perfectly legal to own in MA. The question is weather it is a large capacity weapon as defined or not. It is not on the large capacity weapons roster and not being on the roster is NOT a large capacity weapon and legal for an FID holder if the person that has it has no large capacity magazines, by definition, that is what the law says, I didn't write. But I did read it. I also said it could be added to the list anytime so I would stick with a gun with an internal 10 round or less mag.

    Chapter 140: Section 129B. Firearm identification cards; conditions and restrictions
    (6) A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to possess: (i) a large capacity firearm or large capacity feeding device therefor, except under a Class A license issued to a shooting club as provided under section 131 or under the direct supervision of a holder of a Class A license issued to an individual under section 131 at an incorporated shooting club or licensed shooting range; or (ii) a non-large capacity firearm or large capacity rifle or shotgun or large capacity feeding device therefor, except under a Class A license issued to a shooting club as provided under section 131 or under the direct supervision of a holder of a Class A or Class B license issued to an individual under section 131 at an incorporated shooting club or licensed shooting range. A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to possess any rifle or shotgun that is, or in such manner that is, otherwise prohibited by law. A firearm identification card shall be valid for the purpose of purchasing and possessing chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate. Except as otherwise provided herein, a firearm identification card shall not be valid for the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental or transportation of a rifle or shotgun if such rifle or shotgun is a large capacity weapon as defined in section 121.
    “121. Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon. The term “large capacity weapon” shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon; (iv) any weapon that has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a large capacity weapon; or (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable large capacity weapon.
    Capable of Accepting a large Capacity Feeding Device means any firearm, rifle or shotgun in which a large capacity feeding device as defined in MGL c. 140 $ 121 is capable of being used without alteration of the weapon provided however, that said feeding device is fully or partially inserted into the weapon or attached thereto, or is under the direct control of a person who also has direct control of a weapon capable of accepting said feeding device
    Last edited by Mach; 02-14-2010 at 02:17 AM.

  10. #10
    NES Member vellnueve's Avatar
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    Mach, yet again you are wrong. The AR-15 is listed in several forms on the Large Capacity roster. Because all the various AR-15 clones out there are of the same design, they are all considered covered.

    Scrivener does this for a living and he is damned good at it. You think you know everything, but you really need to get a clue and stop trying to argue with those who know the laws better. You've given some advice that can get people in seriously hot water should they follow it.

    Let me make this clear to the OP. You can NOT purchase an AR-15 type rifle save those that have fixed ten-round magazines.
    Last edited by vellnueve; 02-14-2010 at 04:07 AM.
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and thus any interpretation or statements about the law that I might make should be taken with a grain of salt and mixed with your own legal research as well as advice from actual legal counsel. I cannot be held responsible if you find yourself somebody's "friend" in federal, state, or local prison should you act on my opinions on the law. My interpretations of the law will generally be on the conservative side.

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