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  1. #1
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    Default Lee 1oz cas slug - what wad can I use?

    Hi everyone,

    New to reloading 12ga slugs. VERY NEW. I've got some lead, I've got the mold, I've got the hulls. Soon I will have some slugs.

    When I do I need to buy 209 primers and WADS.

    Wads is where I get hung up. The Lee mold manual suggests I can use shot cups or wads but all the listed data in the manual as you would suspect does not correspond to readily available product.

    I can get WINDJAMMER 1oz Wads - or shot cups with the little plastic "petals". Now I understand the height of the slug has to be determined by the powder depth at proper charge and wad...but before I even get there:

    Does anyone know if you can use "any" type of 1oz wads / shot cups? Or is there a specific type of wad that HAS TO BE USED with a slug?

    Aside from discouraging warnings (as I am trying to do it right) any wisdom you could impart from your experience that would be helpful is appreciated.

    Thanks everyone!

  2. #2
    NES Member Madball13's Avatar
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    Default

    As far as i know you just follow the loading data for 1oz loads with your given shot cup, powder and primer. I would choose your powder, wads and primers and then find the correct recipe and follow accordingly. I'm sure someone will come along and either agree or shit on my answer so just in case, IANAL.

    Edit - Lee says use standard hulls and wads. So find a recipe from a powder manufacture for the powder you will use and go with it.
    Last edited by Madball13; 12-30-2009 at 03:18 PM.
    Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back."
    ó Heraclitus

  3. #3
    NES Member DukeInFlorida's Avatar
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    Default

    Specifically, what hulls are you going to be using? The wads need to get matched to the hull, and then to the shot/slug.
    And, what powder will you be using?

    You didn't include that info in the OP.

    BTW, here's a link to a YouTube Video with a fellow showing how he does slugs. He's using the PINK wads with Winchester hulls. Notice that his crimp is the same as a normal shotshell crimp, because that's how the hull is pre-formed. You're not going to get "factory roll crimps" with slugs at home.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4zI6...eature=related

    Here's a different guy, using a different hull, different wad, and a different slug:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6516648660322#

    BUNCH of reload data here (use with extreme caution):
    http://www.loaddata.com/members/list...ugeid=4&type=1

    And, finally, Hodgdon has some wonderful reload data:
    http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp



    Quote Originally Posted by Zombieoutfitters View Post
    Hi everyone,

    New to reloading 12ga slugs. VERY NEW. I've got some lead, I've got the mold, I've got the hulls. Soon I will have some slugs.

    When I do I need to buy 209 primers and WADS.

    Wads is where I get hung up. The Lee mold manual suggests I can use shot cups or wads but all the listed data in the manual as you would suspect does not correspond to readily available product.

    I can get WINDJAMMER 1oz Wads - or shot cups with the little plastic "petals". Now I understand the height of the slug has to be determined by the powder depth at proper charge and wad...but before I even get there:

    Does anyone know if you can use "any" type of 1oz wads / shot cups? Or is there a specific type of wad that HAS TO BE USED with a slug?

    Aside from discouraging warnings (as I am trying to do it right) any wisdom you could impart from your experience that would be helpful is appreciated.

    Thanks everyone!
    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 12-30-2009 at 04:09 PM.
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
    Author of a book on reloading

  4. #4
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    Default

    First of all, the Lee Key slug is a bitch to cast because of the spanner. I used a w12A wad over 35G of Universal in AA cases and had lousy 100yd. results. I now cast the Lyman 525 oversized airgun pellet with moa accuracy @ 100yds. using 45G of Bluedot under a W12A wad in AA cases. All should be cast with pure lead.. There is a comprehensive thread on this on castboolits.com

  5. #5
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    Default

    Hi guys,

    Thank you to those who have responded thus far. I will be using Unique powder and Remington hulls...the kind you get at Wally World in the 15 shell box "sluggers".

    I was mainly curious about using "shot cups" and if you could use one type of "shot cup" plastic wad with several different types of hulls. For example, the Windjammer wad with Federal hulls AND Remington hulls.

    I'll check out load data for my powder and research a LOT more on recipes for my hull and wads.

    I was *hoping* (like loading 9mm) I could pick up 12ga hulls and use ANY hull in good condition with the same wads...but it does not sound like it works that way. And SAFETY IS #1.

    Accuracy I do not have a great concern about, it's just for the range. I have Federal defense ammo for home.

    Thanks again for your posts - I will use the info in my research and look forward to hearing any additional comments.

  6. #6

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    Lead Slugs 12 1 oz. Buckbuster Universal Win. 209 Fed. 12S4 23.5 10,400 PSI 1350 from hodgdon web site, this replicates a hunting load,
    I used load data for CLAYS powder for 1oz loads and brought the FPS down to 1150/1200 fps for the slug shoots we have. more consistant in accuracy that the 1350fps load I did before.
    I have a old roll crimper that worked well, simular to this http://slugsrus.com/store/page7.html. I think it is a lyman or lee ? It just didnt really get the best crimp

    I ended up useing remington STS hulls, Remington TGT12s wads, 18 grains of clays and adjusted my mec600jr to get a decent regular star crimp. I only loaded these for the fun target shoots we have out to 50 yards. I used a basic slug like the ones found in reminton 5 pack value slugs. Also with the mec600 I can run it through station that puts a nice radius on the top of the shell for better feeding in my 1100.

  7. #7
    NES Member DukeInFlorida's Avatar
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    Here's the problem with the one wad fits all idea:

    The insides of the hulls are different, depending on the hull. Take a bunch of them (different brands), and look inside, at the bottom.

    You'll see paper bottoms (typically just about useless because they tatter too easily), plastic bottoms, and a whole variety of configurations in there.

    So, the wads are really constructed of three parts:

    The lower section that fits over the powder load. That section varies depending on the type of hull.

    The upper section that holds the shot or slug. That section varies depending on how much shot, and which hull.

    The middle section, which is usually some type or style of compressible structure. That varies to make up the total height of the round, and allows for some compression within the shell to keep it all tight.

    I'm going to suggest that you really take a close look at the Hodgdon site I posted, and their walk through for the shell components is superb! I think you will get a sense for what wad to use with THAT specific hull that you have.

    No, you can't use one wad for all hulls.
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
    Author of a book on reloading

  8. #8
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    Default Totally frustrated - please check my logic

    Thanks Mac, I'll check out slugs r us information.

    I researched a bunch today based on the input so far - THANKS AGAIN!

    I am really frustrated now.

    I have 2 types of hulls Federal and Remington, both the high brass...not super high but not the super short ones about 1/2" of brass. I don't know the hull model name as they are not in front of me.

    I have Unique and American Select powder.

    I can get Windjammer 1oz wads or order CB110's from Midway or whatever.

    I also have Win209 primers.

    Now...here comes frustration. When I go to the wad manufacturers they only have recipes for my powder / primer combo with 1 1/8 oz wads.

    When I go to my powder manufacturers they either don't have any of the powder recipes listed on the wad manufacturer site or they only show recipes for my primer/powder with other hulls or my primer/powder/hull BUT WITH 1 1/8 oz wads.

    This is FRUSTRATING as I KNOW these powders can be used for 1oz wads as there are other recipes for the powder using 1oz shot BUT they don't list any for my exact set of components!!! Arrrggghh.

    Though there is NO recipe for my exact components, it implies that there IS ONE BUT HAS NOT BEEN CREATED YET. They are not saying HOW to do it, but they are not saying you CANNOT do it...and do it safely.

    Now I've been reloading 9mm for a mere year now. I know I can use any case I can clean and prime. I can use any powder that has load data for a 9mm. But the manufacturer of the BULLET or the CASING rarely plays a role.

    Am I being WAY TOO CAUTIOUS, I mean beyond reasonable here. OR should I just "grab my balls" and load a 1oz slug in a 1oz wad in a 2.75" hull using the best approximate recipe I can find for my primers? Working UP the load of course.

    In my experience...the hull and slug are like a 9mm casing and 115gr bullet, they don't really factor in if they are in a safe condition.

    In my estimation it's the WAD, PRIMER AND POWDER...the stuff that will "go boom" and accompany my slug down the barrel that are important here.

    Order of importance being powder charge, primer choice and WAD. Powder for propellant, primer for ignition and WAD for proper crimp and accuracy down range.

    That being said - I should be able to take all the data and approximate a recipe. I'm thinking (Hull)+(1oz wad)+(Win209)+(slug)+(18-20 grains of Unique or American Select) should be a good place to start. Work it up from 16 grains and start from there.

    Am I crazy or does this sound reasonable?
    Last edited by Zombieoutfitters; 12-31-2009 at 01:57 PM.

  9. #9
    NES Member DukeInFlorida's Avatar
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    Shotshells are different than metallic cartridges.

    Here's the OFFICIAL warning: With shotshells, you DO NOT "work up a load". You follow the absolute given recipe.

    Before the shotgunners yell at me, I am speaking the official warning of the industry. All of the official industry sources warn against the concept of building up to a load.

    You'll have to treat the TWO different hulls as two different loads.

    Use who ever made your powder (that you will using) as the source, and call their phone, and ask them or reload data for the specifics. Tell them what hull (advise them of the two different ones that you intend to use), and that you will be loading slugs. Have them tell you how much of what powder, and what wad to use.

    If you get some Hodgdon Universal Powder for starting off with, their site has great load data for 1 oz slugs in three different types (three different 1 oz slugs). I see your Remington hulls listed. I also see a Federal hull listed.

    Here's the data for one combo, but you should get it first hand rather than rely on anything any one posts:
    2 3/4" Remington STS or Gun Club Hulls 12 ga 1 oz. Buckbuster Slug << note: recipe changes with any change of slug type and weight
    23.5 grains Universal Powder Win. 209 primer Fed. 12S4 wad
    10,400 PSI 1350 fps

    This is what a 12s4 wad looks like:


    Notice, when you look at Midway, for example, that the 12S4 wad is a 1 1/4 oz wad. Don't worry about that. The slug will be longer than the same amount (weight) of shot. With the wads, it's the length of the projectile (either shot or slug) that's the key factor.

    The manufacturers of the powder have already worked up all the combinations for your hulls/powder/slugs. Use that resource, follow the recipe EXACTLY, get whatever wads they specify, and be safe!
    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 12-31-2009 at 02:08 PM.
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
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  10. #10

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    I find its best not to try to make what you have work
    Get the components that are needed
    Balistic Specialties is another great reloading wed site, They have load data also for use with fiber wads ect ect. Check out alliants web site for a down load of there load data. It tends to have a larger section of data

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