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  1. #1
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    Default AR15 Remove pins in collapsible stock ?

    I am a New Hampshire resident with a non resident Mass LTC A. I ordered a Rock River AR15 but had it made Mass compliant. I shoot in Mass sometimes and wanted it compliant. I also felt it would be easier to sell that way if I ever wanted to get rid of the gun. It came from the factory with a collapsible stock that has two roll pins installed by them holding it in place.
    I read somewhere that the stock had to be fixed and require a tool to adjust it for it to be legal.
    So my question is would it be legal to remove the roll pins and use screws to lock the stock?
    It would still require a tool (Screwdriver) to change the adjustments.
    This way I could keep it adjustable in NH and fix it when going to Mass to keep them happy.

  2. #2
    NES Member Tim111's Avatar
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    IANAL but I think that would be fine. The laws are so grey in this state that most police officers can't understand them. To me though fixed=fixed, regardless of how.

  3. #3
    NES Member vellnueve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim111 View Post
    IANAL but I think that would be fine. The laws are so grey in this state that most police officers can't understand them. To me though fixed=fixed, regardless of how.
    Wrong.

    A mere screw will not suffice for ban compliance.
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and thus any interpretation or statements about the law that I might make should be taken with a grain of salt and mixed with your own legal research as well as advice from actual legal counsel. I cannot be held responsible if you find yourself somebody's "friend" in federal, state, or local prison should you act on my opinions on the law. My interpretations of the law will generally be on the conservative side.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by vellnueve View Post
    Wrong.

    A mere screw will not suffice for ban compliance.
    What if I were to install allen head bolts and use an allen wrench to remove?

    I remember reading the "cant be adjusted with out a tool" somewhere but haven't been able to find it.

    Just wondering what I would have to be done to make it legal. I am trying to avoid buying a new stock and switching it over every time I cross the state line.
    At this time I am not 100% sure that the stock they use has all the parts inside to make it collapsible anyway. If anyone has done this let me know.
    I have seen bushmasters done like this too with the pins so maybe someone else has worked it out.

    I have had many people say don't worry if your a New Hampshire resident I think they are confusing being able to carry a non mass approved handgun like a Kimber with the special rules they dreamed up with the assalt weapons ban laws.

  5. #5
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    How you do know a screw will not suffice? According to the now-defunct Federal ban "B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a
    detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -
    (i) a folding or telescoping stock;"

    The Massachusetts AWB mirrors the 1994 bill, hence the wording would be the same. If the stock is rendered non-moveable by any means, it is in compliance, is it not? I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I am curious as to where you got your information saying that a screw is not sufficient. Can you site your source? I'm curious for my own information.

  6. #6
    NES Member vellnueve's Avatar
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    BATFE Technical Branch defined the modes of pinning that would be acceptable under their ban. Since, as you said, the MA AWB pretty much mirrors the Federal ban in most ways, a screw would not be allowed.
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and thus any interpretation or statements about the law that I might make should be taken with a grain of salt and mixed with your own legal research as well as advice from actual legal counsel. I cannot be held responsible if you find yourself somebody's "friend" in federal, state, or local prison should you act on my opinions on the law. My interpretations of the law will generally be on the conservative side.

  7. #7
    Moderator jdubois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harleynut View Post
    I remember reading the "cant be adjusted with out a tool" somewhere but haven't been able to find it.
    I believe you are thinking of the California ban stipulation that you cannot have the detatchable magazine unless it requires a tool to remove it. I have never seen a clarification that a stock can be telescoping or folding if it takes a tool to do so.

    ATF had said that the stock must be 'permanently' fixed to be legal
    for the federal ban. If MA follows this rule, even most pinned stocks that I've seen could be found to be illegal because they are hardly permanent or even at all difficult to unpin.

    I think you would be treading of very thin ice to have a tool-adjustable stock in MA.
    Last edited by jdubois; 03-14-2009 at 08:09 AM.
    (Ob. IANAL)

    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -- Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by vellnueve View Post
    BATFE Technical Branch defined the modes of pinning that would be acceptable under their ban. Since, as you said, the MA AWB pretty much mirrors the Federal ban in most ways, a screw would not be allowed.
    Can you send me the actual link for this? I was just all over the BATF's website and couldn't find any reference to this. Sorry to be a pain in the backside, but I feel that it's important to fully research this :) Thanks!

  9. #9
    NES Member vellnueve's Avatar
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    It's a moot point for you because you cannot own an AR in Boston.
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and thus any interpretation or statements about the law that I might make should be taken with a grain of salt and mixed with your own legal research as well as advice from actual legal counsel. I cannot be held responsible if you find yourself somebody's "friend" in federal, state, or local prison should you act on my opinions on the law. My interpretations of the law will generally be on the conservative side.

  10. #10
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    It's a totally valid point because I don't actually live in Boston. I work in Boston, yes, but I live outside the "exclusion zone". Now, how about please finding me that link about pins vs. screws that you saw on the BATF website that I can't seem to locate??

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