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  1. #1

    Default Lending gun to lawful gun owner

    Hi folks,

    My brother and I will soon be enjoying another hunting season in Vermont together. We hunt where we grew up. He moved to MA last year and is in the process of getting his LTC.

    As soon as he gets his LTC he's going to buy my G21. The LTC process can take months in the town in which we both live in MA, so there is no way he'll have it in time for the season. My question is whether I can legally lend him the firearm while we're hunting in Vermont.

    I know this would be a big no-no in the state of MA, but in Vermont where the gun laws are sensible I'm wondering if this would be kosher. Again, my brother is a lawful owner of long guns and handguns in VT. He just would rather carry my G21 than his Single Six when we go in deep this fall.

    Thanks,

    O/U

  2. #2
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    IANAL, but AFAIK as long as he isn't keeping it (taking it back to MA...ever unless it is his or it goes through an FFL), he can shoot it as long as he is legal to possess it by VT laws. He however cannot bring it back to MA unless he has a license.

  3. #3
    Moderator jdubois's Avatar
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    Yup, there's no problem there. While in Vermont, Vermont law applies. Lend away.
    (Ob. IANAL)

    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -- Mahatma Gandhi

  4. #4

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    Thanks for the feedback. You guys are both confirming my reading of VT firearms law.

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    Moderator jdubois's Avatar
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    There's actually a funny quirk of federal firearms law such that you could even sell him the pistol while you guys are both in VT (assuming you're both MA residents, and all other federal requirements are met), but then he could never bring it back to MA without transferring it to himself through an FFL (and neither could you).
    (Ob. IANAL)

    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -- Mahatma Gandhi

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdubois View Post
    There's actually a funny quirk of federal firearms law such that you could even sell him the pistol while you guys are both in VT (assuming you're both MA residents, and all other federal requirements are met), but then he could never bring it back to MA without transferring it to himself through an FFL (and neither could you).
    Explain, this doesn't make any sense to me.

    So you're saying, as long as they're in the other state, they can perform a transfer, yet, they cannot bring the gun back into MA despite a transfer having taken place? (I realize the other guy will need an LTC to bring it back into MA.. .... but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about. )

    -Mike
    Last edited by drgrant; 09-03-2008 at 03:56 PM.

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    Moderator jdubois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drgrant View Post
    Explain, this doesn't make any sense to me.

    So you're saying, as long as they're in the other state, they can perform a transfer, yet, they cannot bring the gun back into MA despite a transfer having taken place? (I realize the other guy will need an LTC to bring it back into MA.. .... but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about. )

    -Mike
    Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it's an unintended quirk. 18 USC 44 § 922(5) disallows selling to anybody who you have reasonable cause to believe doesn't share your state of residence. But notice it does not say the sale has to be in your state, just that you both have to be residents of your state. Ok, so selling to another MA resident in VT is allowed, since VT law doesn't disallow it (I think, I'd have to go back to the VT laws and make sure). But § 922(3) says that one cannot transport any firearm into the state where they reside if it was purchased or obtained outside that state (though it does exclude the long guns purchased from an FFL exception).

    So that would produce the situation where it's legal to purchase the handgun from your buddy while in VT but not bring it back to your home state. And once the transaction is completed, you couldn't go back to the original owner without a second transaction, which would now disallow the original owner from transporting it back.
    (Ob. IANAL)

    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -- Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdubois View Post
    Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it's an unintended quirk. 18 USC 44 § 922(5) disallows selling to anybody who you have reasonable cause to believe doesn't share your state of residence. But notice it does not say the sale has to be in your state, just that you both have to be residents of your state. Ok, so selling to another MA resident in VT is allowed, since VT law doesn't disallow it (I think, I'd have to go back to the VT laws and make sure). But § 922(3) says that one cannot transport any firearm into the state where they reside if it was purchased or obtained outside that state (though it does exclude the long guns purchased from an FFL exception).

    So that would produce the situation where it's legal to purchase the handgun from your buddy while in VT but not bring it back to your home state. And once the transaction is completed, you couldn't go back to the original owner without a second transaction, which would now disallow the original owner from transporting it back.
    Ok, that clears it up a bit, thanks for the explanation. Talk about a weird, if nearly useless, "greyhole."

    -Mike

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    Moderator jdubois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drgrant View Post
    Ok, that clears it up a bit, thanks for the explanation. Talk about a weird, if nearly useless, "greyhole."
    Yeah, dunno that it's good for anything other than as an amusing logic puzzle.
    (Ob. IANAL)

    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -- Mahatma Gandhi

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