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  1. #1
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    Default Question on the hunter's education course

    At the MassWildlife website on the Massachusetts Gun Licensing Requirements page, it says the following:

    Class "A" and Class "B" License to Carry (LTC) Information

    Your current LTC will be valid until its stated expiration date. New applicants must be 21 years of age or older to obtain a Class “A" or Class “B" permit. New applicants must complete a Mass. certified firearms safety course or a BASIC HUNTER EDUCATION COURSE. Class “A" and “B" LTC cost $100.00 and are valid for 6 years.

    Firearms Identification (FID) Cards

    The new FID card permits the purchase, possession and carrying of NON-LARGE CAPACITY RIFLES, SHOTGUNS and AMMUNITION ONLY. You must be at least 18 years old (or 15 - 17 years old with parental consent) to apply for an FID card. The fee for an FID card is $100.00 and it is valid for 6 years. New applicants must complete a Mass. approved firearms safety course or a BASIC HUNTER EDUCATION COURSE. A restricted FID card is available solely for the possession of mace or pepper spray. Applicants for the restricted FID are exempt from the education requirement.

    http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/educa...d_gun_laws.htm

    But at mass.gov, it says the following:

    Approved Basic Firearms Safety Courses
    In Accordance with Massachusetts General Law Chapter . 140, § 131P and 515 CMR 3.00:


    L.T.C. Basic Firearms Safety Courses

    Certification #
    Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association Basic Handgun Safety Course LTC-001
    NRA Basic Pistol Course LTC-002
    NRA Personal Protection Course LTC-003
    SIG Arms Academy Handgun Orientation Course LTC-004
    Smith & Wesson Academy Massachusetts Carry Permit Course LTC-005
    MCJTC Recruit Firearms Training Course LTC-006
    *NRA Home Safety Course LTC-007
    Worcester Police Department Firearms Responsibility and Safety Program LTC-008
    Mass Sheriffs’Association’s Firearms Safety & Handling Course LTC-009
    B.F.S.I. Handgun Safety Course LTC-010
    Massachusetts State Police Recruit Firearms Training Program LTC-011
    SIG Arms Concealed Carry Pistol Course LTC-012
    USPSA Safe Handgun Competitor - MA Edition Firearms Course LTC-013
    CQB Arms LTC Course LTC-014
    The Andover Police Department's Basic Firearms Safety Course LTC-015
    The MagPro Basic Firearms Safety Course LTC-016
    Massachusetts Certified Basic Pistol Course LTC-017
    CCW Point Blank Course LTC-018

    * The NRA Home Safety Course which was previously certified for F. I. D. Cards only (course FID-002) has been reclassified for LTC
    F.I.D. Card Basic Firearms Safety Courses

    Certification #
    NRA Basic Rifle Or Shotgun Courses FID-001
    SIG Arms Academy Firearms Orientation and Familiarization Courses for Shotgun, Carbine or Rifle FID-003
    Smith & Wesson Academy Massachusetts F.I.D. Safety Course FID-004

    *Note: In addition to the courses listed under F.I.D. Cards, courses listed under L.T.C. Basic Firearms Safety Courses are approved safety courses for the purpose of issuing F.I.D. Basic Firearms Safety Certificates.

    http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopsterm...ses&csid=Eeops

    So is the Basic Hunter Education Course approved for getting an F.I.D. Card, and eventually a Class "A" LTC? And if so, why is not included in the list of "Approved Courses"?

    MassWildlife says their page was updated 9/21/2007. The list of "Approved Basic Firearms Safety Courses" was last updated 6/07/2007.

  2. #2
    Registered User matt's Avatar
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    I'm guessing you are having trouble with this statement:
    Your current LTC will be valid until its stated expiration date. New applicants must be 21 years of age or older to obtain a Class “A" or Class “B" permit. New applicants must complete a Mass. certified firearms safety course or a BASIC HUNTER EDUCATION COURSE. Class “A" and “B" LTC cost $100.00 and are valid for 6 years.
    It is just poorly written. The statement "New applicants must complete a Mass. certified firearms safety course or a BASIC HUNTER EDUCATION COURSE. " is meant to apply to liscensing in general.

    The Basic Hunter Safety Course does not apply to an LTC, only FID.

    Most improtantly, why would you get an FID? (assuming you are >21)

  3. #3
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    I'm <21, so an FID is only option for me right now. But I want to take an LTC certified course to get my FID, so that I don't have to take another course later.

    Really, I am too impatient to wait a year until I'm 21. Dad continues to build up his arsenal, and I want to get in on it. Just going down the road to shoot with him at the Winchendon Rod & Gun Club isn't enough anymore. Now you should know who I am, Matt.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt View Post
    The Basic Hunter Safety Course does not apply to an LTC, only FID.
    That's not correct (unless they changed something since April). The Hunter's Ed course WILL cover you for a Class A or B, in fact when I took mine earlier this year at least half of the class were taking it to get their LTC. What's funny is that the course covered nothing on handguns...

  5. #5
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    Here is the relevant language from the controlling regulation:

    2) Basic Firearms Safety Course Curriculum Criteria. Curriculum for a BFS course shall include curriculum criteria as described in M.G.L.c. 140, § 131P(b).

    (a) A BFS course used as a prerequisite for a FID shall use rifles and/or shotguns as the primary subject matter of the curriculum unless the course is an approved LTC BFS course. A BFS course used as a prerequisite for a LTC shall use pistols and/or revolvers as the primary subject matter of the curriculum.

    (b) Certain BFS course curriculums do not contain a firearms related law component. Such curriculums can still meet Department of State Police curriculum criteria by utilizing guest speakers familiar with firearms laws or by utilizing or distributing to its students written informational pamphlets/books/videos by an entity/individual familiar with firearms laws to cover that portion of the course.

    (3) FID Card Basic Firearms Safety Courses. The following BFS courses, with fulfillment of 515 CMR 3.05(2)(b) requirements as applicable, meet the Department of State Police's criteria for obtaining a FID card and are approved:

    (a) NRA Basic Rifle or Shotgun Courses and NRA Home Safety Course;

    (b) SIG Arms Academy Firearms Orientation and Familiarization Courses for Shotgun, Carbine or Rifle; and

    (c) Smith & Wesson Academy Massachusetts F.I.D. Safety Training Course.

    (d) Approved LTC Basic Firearms Safety Course as set forth in 515 CMR 3.05(4) or (5).

    (4) LTC Basic Firearms Safety Courses. The following BFS courses, with fulfillment of 515 CMR 3.05(2)(b) requirements as applicable, meet the Department of State Police's criteria for obtaining a LTC and are approved:

    (a) Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association Basic Handgun Safety Course;

    (b) NRA Basic Pistol Course, NRA Personal Protection Course or NRA Home Safety Course;

    (c) SIG Arms Academy Handgun Orientation Course; and

    (d) Smith & Wesson Academy Massachusetts Carry Permit Course
    NOTE: Once duly licensed, there is NO lawful basis for requiring "re-certification" or any such BS. This includes applying for an LTC when one holds an FID.
    Last edited by Scrivener; 12-30-2007 at 05:21 PM.

  6. #6
    Registered User matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    I'm <21, so an FID is only option for me right now. But I want to take an LTC certified course to get my FID, so that I don't have to take another course later.

    Really, I am too impatient to wait a year until I'm 21. Dad continues to build up his arsenal, and I want to get in on it. Just going down the road to shoot with him at the Winchendon Rod & Gun Club isn't enough anymore. Now you should know who I am, Matt.
    HA!! Hey Ben... should have caught that!

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    Thanks, Scrivener.

    The puzzling thing is that I emailed the Department of Public Safety, asking why the Basic Hunter Safety Course was not included in their list of Approved Courses. Their reply said I should refer my question to the Criminal History Systems Board. So I called the Board up. The man I talked to said some towns and cities accept the Hunter's Ed course for an LTC, while others do not. He suggested that I find out: "Take the Hunter's Ed Course, get your FID, and then after you turn 21, see if the local authorities will upgrade it to an LTC."

    What a lot of sense that makes. Since firearms licensing requirements are determined at the state level, rather than the local level. Or at least, that's how they are supposed to be decided.

    Perhaps the reason for the "muddle" is that the Hunter's Safety Course was just recently instituted, and in their wonderful timing, the bureaucrats have not yet fully integrated it in their regulations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    The puzzling thing is that I emailed the Department of Public Safety, asking why the Basic Hunter Safety Course was not included in their list of Approved Courses. Their reply said I should refer my question to the Criminal History Systems Board. So I called the Board up. The man I talked to said some towns and cities accept the Hunter's Ed course for an LTC, while others do not. He suggested that I find out: "Take the Hunter's Ed Course, get your FID, and then after you turn 21, see if the local authorities will upgrade it to an LTC."
    Instead of talking to an unnamed and, probably, ill-informed "man;" talk to someone useful. Call back and ask for Board Counsel Erin Devaney. I think you'll get a qualitative response from her.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post

    Perhaps the reason for the "muddle" is that the Hunter's Safety Course was just recently instituted, and in their wonderful timing, the bureaucrats have not yet fully integrated it in their regulations.
    Huh? I'm not following you. The Hunter Safety Course in MA has been around for at least 15 years. There was a brief period after Ch. 180 of 1998 was passed that the Hunter's Safety Course was not required for a hunting license, but that was fixed a couple years later.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911 View Post
    Huh? I'm not following you. The Hunter Safety Course in MA has been around for at least 15 years. There was a brief period after Ch. 180 of 1998 was passed that the Hunter's Safety Course was not required for a hunting license, but that was fixed a couple years later.
    Well, I was wrong on that one. Thanks for the correction.

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