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  1. #31

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    So your blaming the result of an executiove order on the NFATCA? What do you even know about the NFATCA? Jeff a rat? If that's the best you can come up with, you shouldn't even vote.

    And on the CLEO sign-off for trust, go and actually do fact checking before you make statements like that. Are you even a member of the NFATCA or are you basing your comments on internet reporting?
    You're always allowed to enjoy the Freedom of buying as much as you want at Acme Armament!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acme.Armament View Post
    You two need to go do some fact checking instead of slinging crap. What was in the signed executive order was not what NFATCA wanted at all.

    Their still is no requirement for a CLEO sign off if you have a trust.
    EDIT: respectfully, there is.

    https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...r-firearms.pdf

    Ref: Page 21, 24, creating a new form 5320.23 that requires prints, photos and signoff from the CLEO for EVERY member of a trust. The word "natural" being removed from person and then defining a person as a human or a trust or corporation.


    Second, the idea that NFATCA goes to the ATF and states that they should do away with CLEO since people are bypassing it with trusts begged for a change to trusts. It is the perfect "unintended consequences". The cooperation the ATF had with NFATCA was a sham and had more to do with allowing the proposed new regs to be "proposed" by a "pro gun" group rather than ATF. The document specifically references the NFATCA as being part of the proposal.

    NFATCA brings the fact up that people are bypassing CLEO as justification for allowing EVERYONE to bypass CLEO..... Result: CLEO enforced on ALL now... Seriously, who didnt see this coming with THIS anti gun president. Proposing the change during a different administration MAY have resulted in something different but all they did was give AMMO to Barak and the ATF to change the rules.

    NFATCA got half of what they wanted, the crap half and no CLEO elimination. NFATCA propsed background checks for trusts, and now ALL members get checked. NAFTCA's petition is what got the ball rolling, what did they expect? Honesty? Reality?
    Last edited by 01SVTvert; 08-30-2013 at 11:04 PM.

  3. #33
    NES Member Mass-diver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acme.Armament View Post
    So your blaming the result of an executiove order on the NFATCA? What do you even know about the NFATCA? Jeff a rat? If that's the best you can come up with, you shouldn't even vote.

    And on the CLEO sign-off for trust, go and actually do fact checking before you make statements like that. Are you even a member of the NFATCA or are you basing your comments on internet reporting?
    Are you kidding me?

    1.)You do understand it was the NFATCA that petitioned the aft to close the trust loophole, right?

    http://www.examiner.com/article/nfa-...st-rule-change


    2.)The Cleo sign off stuff is on the ATF website: see pg14, it will expanded for trusts

    https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...r-firearms.pdf

    3.) the stuff about John brown is public record.

    http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...materials.html
    Last edited by Mass-diver; 09-07-2013 at 09:16 AM.
    If you come for mine, you better bring yours....We shoot back

  4. #34
    NES Member Mass-diver's Avatar
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    Nice to see the NRA is apparently going to get involved. In the past, the perception has been that the NRA wants nothing to do with class III guns, it would be great if that is going to change.

    NRA-ILA | Obama misses the mark with overbroad NFA background check proposal
    If you come for mine, you better bring yours....We shoot back

  5. #35
    NES Member atilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mass-diver View Post
    Nice to see the NRA is apparently going to get involved. In the past, the perception has been that the NRA wants nothing to do with class III guns, it would be great if that is going to change.

    NRA-ILA | Obama misses the mark with overbroad NFA background check proposal
    would definitely be nice to see.
    stout: these dark, rich beers are called such because after drinking a dozen of them you will feel stout enough to wrestle all four of the cops by yourself.

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  6. #36

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    Even though it doesn't affect me (Has there ever been a refusal to sign by a New Hampshire police chief?), the part that irks me most is the failure to eliminate the CLEO "signoff". The need for a "permission slip" from your local head cop really does need to go away.

  7. #37
    NES Member **DRB**'s Avatar
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    I knew this was to good to be true when talked about over a year ago... I should have just do e the trust with me and my wife.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin_NH View Post
    Even though it doesn't affect me (Has there ever been a refusal to sign by a New Hampshire police chief?), the part that irks me most is the failure to eliminate the CLEO "signoff". The need for a "permission slip" from your local head cop really does need to go away.
    I'm about to find out.

  9. #39
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    I looked into this a while back and seem to recall the attorney (Joe Hickson) indicated that a CLEO needs to sign off on your green card even if you have a trust (in MA). Perhaps I misunderstood him though. I figured if you can't get a green card then everything else is non-starter.
    “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but where, I trust in God, it will always remain, in the hands of the people. ” – Tench Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  10. #40
    NES Member atilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MA_Shooter View Post
    I looked into this a while back and seem to recall the attorney (Joe Hickson) indicated that a CLEO needs to sign off on your green card even if you have a trust (in MA). Perhaps I misunderstood him though. I figured if you can't get a green card then everything else is non-starter.
    green card is for MA state, so yes, CLEO must say yes.

    otherwise NFA items are moot, machine guns at least. AOWs and SBS/SBRs are still on the table as you can go the trust route for that, but in MA you need special "papieren" to possess a machine gun.
    stout: these dark, rich beers are called such because after drinking a dozen of them you will feel stout enough to wrestle all four of the cops by yourself.

    proud member: lady liberty eskimo brothers crew - mai tai and squid-vomiting champion, 2013 - immer rein und raus - team "protect the children" - team "CORNELL SUCKS". team damaging personal insults absorbed.

    DJ "goathammer wubstep jam remixed by nero and skrillex (bassnectar mix)"

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