Live Free or Die !

[squarooticus]

I will leave this thread now and let you thrash it out.

Whew! I thought I might have to endure more of this penetrating insight into topics I was not addressing in my comments.

Kyle

[The Village Idiot]

I guess the question to ask is this:

Exactly what law states people have to pay federal income taxes?

It's an interesting one because its one that nobody seems to be able to provide an answer to.

What law in Massachusetts requires you to get a gun license? Chapter 140, section 129C. Simple answer.

Surely there is something just as simple in the Federal Laws. How come nobody can produce it?

I'm not about to go cold Turkey on taxes, but it is a question that is worthy of an answer.

Here is your answer:
Amendment XVI to The Constitution of the United States

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

[FPrice]

Here is your answer:
Amendment XVI to The Constitution of the United States

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

This is interesting in that the self-appointed "Constitutional Ranger" as he called himself will tell you point-blank that this amendment does not matter since it was not in the original constitution and therefore has no validity since no one can change what was first written (an approximation of what he said on the Howie Carr about two months ago.

But this so-called "Constitutional Ranger" seems to be woefully ignorant of Article. 5.

[Garys]

This is interesting in that the self-appointed "Constitutional Ranger" as he called himself will tell you point-blank that this amendment does not matter since it was not in the original constitution and therefore has no validity since no one can change what was first written (an approximation of what he said on the Howie Carr about two months ago.

This is interesting in that the self-appointed "Constitutional Ranger" as he called himself will tell you point-blank that this amendment does not matter since it was not in the original constitution and therefore has no validity since no one can change what was first written (an approximation of what he said on the Howie Carr about two months ago.

Yeahhhh, right. So, women can't vote, slavery still exists, the President isn't really limited to two terms.

Reality check in Plainfield, NH please.

Gary

[calsdad]

I am not telling you, YOU HAVE TO PITCH IN, the LAW is, take it up with the IRS if you care to.
The WRONG we are all talking about here is NOT paying the Taxes that are legally Due and owed. So WRONG in the case as is being REFERENCED is INDEED ILLEGAL.
Your argument is extremely weak and very shallow. The Federal Prisons have many who were defiant in not paying their taxes. I stand by my posts and this guy is by no means a Hero. Having Guns and defiantly claiming to use them as he breaks the law is no one I want to Muster behind. Randy Weaver was a whole different case and I would have gladly stood behind him. This guy is a pure NUT case and if everyone stood defiantly and not pay their taxes, you would not be talking ENGLISH and who knows who would be patrolling your streets and the schools would be forced to close as would hospitals, Airports and everything else that so enjoys Federal ad State funding.
How anyone can recognize that this guy is representing anything good in his ignorant defiance is beyond me.

Furthermore you are misinformed or choose to ignore the process about how Amendments are created. The 16th Amendment was Logged in as a Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in February of 1913. Prior to this Bill becoming an Amendment, it had to be RATIFIED by at least 75% of the then exsisting states. It was. That makes it a Law that is much more than a local law but a Law that was passed by the Majority of the people of the majority of the states. Sorry! it isn't just an IRS thing it is a Amendment. So if you want to be Protective of the second Amendment and all it stands for, you can not pick ad chose ONLY the Amendments that you agree with.
I will leave this thread now and let you thrash it out.

Since you have pretty clearly stated your viewpoints on obeying "the law" am I to assume you will all be telling us that when the new AWB passes that we should all be good little doobies and stop complaining about the government taking our guns away - because it is now "the law" ??? If that will not be good enough for you - then apparently if the 2nd amendment is repealed - you will be perfectly happy with that - because as long as it gets ratified by 75% of the states then it must be a good thing?

[Chris]

Here is your answer:
Amendment XVI to The Constitution of the United States

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

OK, there is the 'power' to create the law, but I don't see anything there that says "Everyone Must Pay". I want to see the law that explicitly says that all people are required to pay.

[dwarven1]

OK, there is the 'power' to create the law, but I don't see anything there that says "Everyone Must Pay". I want to see the law that explicitly says that all people are required to pay.

+1 - you beat me to it, Chris.

[Wingwiper]

Calsdad
Since you have pretty clearly stated your viewpoints on obeying "the law" am I to assume you will all be telling us that when the new AWB passes that we should all be good little doobies and stop complaining about the government taking our guns away - because it is now "the law" ??? If that will not be good enough for you - then apparently if the 2nd amendment is repealed - you will be perfectly happy with that - because as long as it gets ratified by 75% of the states then it must be a good thing?

You aren't even on the same page of music here. The AWB is not an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution it is a Ban that had a Sunset clause built int it. It is a Federal Law that has NOT been written in to Stone as it would be if it was made into an amendment. BIG DIFFERENCE.

I fought the AWB the last time and wrote countless letters to Senators. I obtained a Draft of the Bill before it was passed to see how they were defining ASSAULT WEAPONS. I did everything in a LAWFUL and PEACEFUL manner and took the courses of action that were legal and not harmful to anyone. We made a difference and the Republicans allowed the Ban to Sunset and the Dems are now trying to get it back into place. I have written countless letters to Editors to inform people, have gotten on Forums and wrote, have gotten in front of groups and spoke and on and on. I have fought the AWB, fighting to change an Amendment is a WHOLE different process.

You do NOT change Laws by being DEFIANT with GUNs in your hands. You change laws in the same manner we got Zumbo Fired from OL. There are processes that can be followed that will gain more momentum than any defiant act will. The Blacks had a Million Man March, gun owners have this Nut in NH, The Immigrants took to the streets by the hundreds of thousands, Gun Owners have this Nut in NH. Gays have gained their foothold in nearly every single state, we have this Nut in NH.
YES! You have to obey the Law once it becomes the LAW. If you don't want to OBEY the Law, that is a choice you need to do preparations for. The U.S. Constitution also gives you a right to Assemble and to Open your mouth and to write greivance without fear of penalty. So don't wait until it becomes a LAW, get off your asses and see to it it doesn't. Write letters to the Editors and enlighten people, Go to groups that may share a common interest and talk. Email or write your reps, Or better yet, get off your ass and get a petition started, after all that is where the AWB found its roots, by people getting INVOLVED and not just sitting around bitching about it. I salute Brady's Wife, I do not support the Brady Bill in the least bit, but I salute the people who got it together because unlike US, they got off of their asses and tried to make a change and for those who sit and wait for someone else to do the effort, it will never happen and there will be more of the Bradys and the Fiensteins, and the Boxers and the Kennedy's and even the Collin Powells and McCains. Powell and McCain BOTH admitted they supported Gun Control and neither got elected. You all will make a far BIGGER difference with your voices and pens and PCs than you will with your Guns. Guns scare people and before you get to first base you have turned many of your would-be supporters off. I am hoping this is not some Board filled with Blind Militants and Crazy People who are waiting for a chance to see what it looks and feels like to shoot someone, so they can have their 2 seconds of Glory. WAKE UP.
This is a Republic and NOT a Democracy, you get things done thru ELECTED OFFICIALS not thru MOB RULE. DO NOT call Senators etc by their titles, for our forefathers created a Government that was EQUAL and By the People, For the People and OF the People. You call the by their First names or Mr or Mrs.. When you call them by Senator or Govenor, you put them on a higher level than yourself and that is Mistake number one. They work for you, do not let them make you feel less, you are equal. I do NOT bow to Royalty, I look them in the eye and shake their hand.

Do you all think for a minute that this bunk about not paying taxes is NEW? It has been challenged by far better people than any of you and they have ALL LOST. In 1998 Bill Benson from Illinois tried to challenge the 16th Amendment by stating it was not properly Ratified by the then 48 States. Mr Benson went to say that the Federal Govt was only able to levy a PROPORTIONAL TAX upon the people. Mr Benson was supported by the Greens Movement and every effort was made to gain creditibility for Mr Benson's claims. The Greens came Up Empty as well as did the Legal Staff hired by people who wanted to support Mr Benson. Mr Benson challenged President Clinton and the IRS, there were many websites that popped up supporting and then UNSUPPORTING Mr Benson. IT turned out the Bill was Properly Ratified and the 16th Amendment is indeed an Amendment and will be enforced. The only thing that keeps some people out of jails is sympathy.

These Boards have the ability to UNITE Folks with Common beliefs and it would be great if we could focus this Unity properly.

If there is an Amendment to collect taxes from the people the ONLY way these taxes can be collected is if they are PAID. So you want proof of having to pay, there you are. Plain and very simple. I don't like taxes anymore than any of you do, I try and Vote for people who will best meet my expatations. I talk of the Federal Sales tax, every chance I get.