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  1. #61
    NES Member mark056's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob P View Post
    I carry .45acp but someone made an excellent point to me about 9mm. My 1911 ES holds 7 rounds. If I don't mind the mag sticking out I can do 8 and if I really don't mind it being stupidly long 10. A Glock 17 holds 17 rounds of 9mm in a package the size of conventional 1911 at almost half the weight. Using modern ammo the 9mm is an effective round and when the SHTF you're more than likely going to be facing multiple attackers. 17 rounds sounds better and better.
    I would agree that the 9mm in modern loadings is an effective personal defense round, but the 124 gr NATO spec stuff is ball ammo, remember no hollowpoints or other frangible ammo for the rank and file troops. (other types of ammo are used by Spec Ops troops).

    9mm Ball is not an effective manstopper.
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  2. #62
    NES Member Bob P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark056 View Post
    I would agree that the 9mm in modern loadings is an effective personal defense round, but the 124 gr NATO spec stuff is ball ammo, remember no hollowpoints or other frangible ammo for the rank and file troops. (other types of ammo are used by Spec Ops troops).

    9mm Ball is not an effective manstopper.
    Is that still because of the Geneva Convention?
    idealistic retard - Join or Die. Call GOAL today. We must all hang together or we shall surely hang separately.

  3. #63
    NES Member mark056's Avatar
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    I believe that is in accordance with the Hague Protocols. The Geneva Conventions (the most recent one in 1949) deals specifically how certain classes of personnel are to be treated in time of war including POWs, medical personnel and non-combatants (civilians). The Hague Convention of 1907 (known as the Hague Protocols) outlawed the use of hollowpoint and other expanding and frangible small arms ammunition, to the best of my knowledge.

    The US Armed Forces as have most military establishments in the world have generally adhered to this policy. I don't think you will find many hollowpoints in the magazines of terrorist used military weapons, for instance.
    Member, Leominster Sportsmen's Association
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    "O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us."...Robert Burns
    "Round up the usual suspects" ... Capt Louis Renault (Claude Rains), "Casablanca", 1942
    mark056 is proudly sponsored (for life) by:" The United States Dept of Defense, losing wars since Korea, 1953"

  4. #64
    NES Member George D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob P View Post
    Isn't SERPA SERPA SERPA what the terrorists in Team America; World Police said?
    No, they are those little native guys that help you climb the Himalayas.
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  5. #65
    NES Member vellnueve's Avatar
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    Serpas have been used in the military for quite some time - this just happens to be the biggest purchase.
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and thus any interpretation or statements about the law that I might make should be taken with a grain of salt and mixed with your own legal research as well as advice from actual legal counsel. I cannot be held responsible if you find yourself somebody's "friend" in federal, state, or local prison should you act on my opinions on the law. My interpretations of the law will generally be on the conservative side.

  6. #66
    Marine Veteran ochmude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vellnueve View Post
    Serpas have been used in the military for quite some time - this just happens to be the biggest purchase.
    Yup. The USMC was issuing SERPAs at least as far back as 4 years ago, possibly 5. I carried one in Iraq.
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  7. #67
    NES Member vellnueve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ochmude View Post
    Yup. The USMC was issuing SERPAs at least as far back as 4 years ago, possibly 5. I carried one in Iraq.
    I've also noticed USAF security forces/MPs with Serpas.
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and thus any interpretation or statements about the law that I might make should be taken with a grain of salt and mixed with your own legal research as well as advice from actual legal counsel. I cannot be held responsible if you find yourself somebody's "friend" in federal, state, or local prison should you act on my opinions on the law. My interpretations of the law will generally be on the conservative side.

  8. #68
    Marine Veteran ochmude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vellnueve View Post
    I've also noticed USAF security forces/MPs with Serpas.
    Now that you mention it I'm pretty certain I've seen SF guys at Westover carrying them. Oh, also I know for a fact that a couple of the MP companies in the MAARNG bought a lot of level 3 SERPAs. I helped inventory them once during drill.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Constitution, Art. IV Sec. 4
    The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion

  9. #69
    NES Member richc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fbirdquik6 View Post
    They also carry with an empty chamber and safety on....

    Is there an access hole in this holster where you can run a gun lock cable? What about a bottle cap opener? Can't be too safe out there...

    :-)

  10. #70
    NES Member OfficerObie59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cekim View Post
    They've also carried in useless mushy nylon abominations for years... Not exactly the final word in tactical gear...
    Yeah, say what you will about the SERPA holsters (which I happen to like), but compared to the M12 holster, most anything produced by Uncle Mikes would be an improvement.
    Quote Originally Posted by fencer View Post
    Didn't the Army switch to the 45 ACP because .38 did not do a good job at stopping the enemy?
    I thought they did it to be consistent with all the other the NATO countries' pistol rounds.

    Hell, most road MP's (when they still do road patrols) are usually mandated to carry safety on, nothing in the pipe with the ability to chamber given only when in a lethal force situtation, guarding munitions or VIP's, or otherwise given authorization. From a civilian LE standpoint, that's damn near a deathwish.
    Last edited by OfficerObie59; 09-30-2011 at 02:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by whacko View Post
    I'd rather die a free man with a bad hip , too many scars and my eyes wide open than live as a member of a flock who thinks someone else can save me from Scary Things.

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