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  1. #61
    NES Member mark056's Avatar
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    I believe that is in accordance with the Hague Protocols. The Geneva Conventions (the most recent one in 1949) deals specifically how certain classes of personnel are to be treated in time of war including POWs, medical personnel and non-combatants (civilians). The Hague Convention of 1907 (known as the Hague Protocols) outlawed the use of hollowpoint and other expanding and frangible small arms ammunition, to the best of my knowledge.

    The US Armed Forces as have most military establishments in the world have generally adhered to this policy. I don't think you will find many hollowpoints in the magazines of terrorist used military weapons, for instance.
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    A student said to his master: "You teach me about fighting but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardner in a war."

  2. #62
    NES Member George D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob P View Post
    Isn't SERPA SERPA SERPA what the terrorists in Team America; World Police said?
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  3. #63
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    Serpas have been used in the military for quite some time - this just happens to be the biggest purchase.

  4. #64
    Marine Veteran ochmude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vellnueve View Post
    Serpas have been used in the military for quite some time - this just happens to be the biggest purchase.
    Yup. The USMC was issuing SERPAs at least as far back as 4 years ago, possibly 5. I carried one in Iraq.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ochmude View Post
    Yup. The USMC was issuing SERPAs at least as far back as 4 years ago, possibly 5. I carried one in Iraq.
    I've also noticed USAF security forces/MPs with Serpas.

  6. #66
    Marine Veteran ochmude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vellnueve View Post
    I've also noticed USAF security forces/MPs with Serpas.
    Now that you mention it I'm pretty certain I've seen SF guys at Westover carrying them. Oh, also I know for a fact that a couple of the MP companies in the MAARNG bought a lot of level 3 SERPAs. I helped inventory them once during drill.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Constitution, Art. IV Sec. 4
    The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion

  7. #67
    NES Member richc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fbirdquik6 View Post
    They also carry with an empty chamber and safety on....

    Is there an access hole in this holster where you can run a gun lock cable? What about a bottle cap opener? Can't be too safe out there...

    :-)

  8. #68
    NES Member OfficerObie59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cekim View Post
    They've also carried in useless mushy nylon abominations for years... Not exactly the final word in tactical gear...
    Yeah, say what you will about the SERPA holsters (which I happen to like), but compared to the M12 holster, most anything produced by Uncle Mikes would be an improvement.
    Quote Originally Posted by fencer View Post
    Didn't the Army switch to the 45 ACP because .38 did not do a good job at stopping the enemy?
    I thought they did it to be consistent with all the other the NATO countries' pistol rounds.

    Hell, most road MP's (when they still do road patrols) are usually mandated to carry safety on, nothing in the pipe with the ability to chamber given only when in a lethal force situtation, guarding munitions or VIP's, or otherwise given authorization. From a civilian LE standpoint, that's damn near a deathwish.
    Last edited by OfficerObie59; 09-30-2011 at 03:05 AM.
    No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree. The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law. These two evils are of equal consequence, and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them.
    Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850

  9. #69
    NES Member mark056's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fencer View Post
    Who cares about the holster? I'd rather carry a 1911 in a plastic bag than a Barreta in just about anything.

    Didn't the Army switch to the 45 ACP because .38 did not do a good job at stopping the enemy? What is the conversion for 9mm?

    Now that they ordered a bazillion plastic holsters they will be stuck with the 9mm for 200 years
    In the early 1900's the Army went to the .38 Long Colt (which had a longer case than a .38 S&W but slightly shorter than .38 Spl). When the Army was fighting Islamic terrorists in the Phillipines back in that time period, the .38 Long Colt was deemed inadequate as a stopper. Consequently the SAA .45 was reissued and voila, problem solved. About the same time, the Army conducted tests on live animals and cadavers and determined that nothing less than .45 caliber was adequate in a pistol. Another factor was that the sabre was obsolescent as a cavalry weaapon (not finally abanonded until the middle 1930's, in pre-WWI also cavalry was still considered a viable branch of the service) and it was necessary to have a heavy enough caliber handgun to be able to shoot an enemy horse effectively at close range.

    The Army after a trial from various competitors adopted the M1911 in .45 ACP.

    In the 1980's many of the 1911's in the inventory were worn, and nearing the end of service life, some in service since before WWII. Newer double action semi-autos were on the market, and the military (the Air Force had abandoned the 1911 in the 1950's in favor of the .38 Spl S&W DA revolver) decided to go with 9mm because it was the NATO standard.
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  10. #70
    Registered User cekim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark056 View Post
    In the early 1900's the Army went to the .38 Long Colt (which had a longer case than a .38 S&W but slightly shorter than .38 Spl). When the Army was fighting Islamic terrorists in the Phillipines back in that time period, the .38 Long Colt was deemed inadequate as a stopper. Consequently the SAA .45 was reissued and voila, problem solved. About the same time, the Army conducted tests on live animals and cadavers and determined that nothing less than .45 caliber was adequate in a pistol. Another factor was that the sabre was obsolescent as a cavalry weaapon (not finally abanonded until the middle 1930's, in pre-WWI also cavalry was still considered a viable branch of the service) and it was necessary to have a heavy enough caliber handgun to be able to shoot an enemy horse effectively at close range.

    The Army after a trial from various competitors adopted the M1911 in .45 ACP.

    In the 1980's many of the 1911's in the inventory were worn, and nearing the end of service life, some in service since before WWII. Newer double action semi-autos were on the market, and the military (the Air Force had abandoned the 1911 in the 1950's in favor of the .38 Spl S&W DA revolver) decided to go with 9mm because it was the NATO standard.
    There have been some advances to be considered in smaller cartridges since the early 1900's

    Oh noes! A calibar war... I'm racking my fotay right now...
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