Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26
  1. #1
    NES Member soloman02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    9,714

    Default Hollis V. Holder (Challenging the 1986 MG Ban)

    Remember how the ATF approved some Form 1's for manufacturing a machinegun via a trust? ANd how then the ATF tried to rescind that approval?

    The first of three lawsuits have been filed in US District Court. The first one originating in Texas. The other two will originate in two other states and I believe all three states are in separate circuit court jurisdictions.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/245057730/...lder-Complaint

    AR-15 thread:

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/168...ms.html&page=1

    Gofundme: http://www.gofundme.com/fmxlnk

  2. #2

    Default

    This is gonna be weird if there is a circuit split, how will that get resolved? Because you know if it goes poorly for the feds, they will appeal it.

    Ultimately I don't think this is going to go anywhere, but it should be fun to watch. It would be funny as hell if the court goes halfway and forces BATFE to acnkowledge the issued stamps as being valid because of the fact that they approved them.

    -Mike

  3. #3
    NES Member soloman02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    9,714

    Default

    I have started to read the complaint and it reads plainly and seems to address multiple issues with the law. I'm not a lawyer but I do know a little from reading up on case law and talking to people who do things in the legal field (like Terraformer). I have only skimmed the complaint but it looks like it might be a "shotgun approach" (which is very bad from an arguing a case and setting good case law standpoint). Now truthfully I have not read the Heller or McDonald original complaints so I don't know if they read similar and the actual attack on the law was narrowed to a specific point once the attorneys showed up in court and argued in person.

  4. #4
    NES Member joshk1025's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    in a building
    Posts
    2,422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drgrant View Post
    This is gonna be weird if there is a circuit split, how will that get resolved? Because you know if it goes poorly for the feds, they will appeal it.

    Ultimately I don't think this is going to go anywhere, but it should be fun to watch. It would be funny as hell if the court goes halfway and forces BATFE to acnkowledge the issued stamps as being valid because of the fact that they approved them.

    -Mike
    This will be fun to watch in a really upsetting sort of way. It's always amusing and infuriating when courts (and .gov) stomp all over the law in decisions.
    GOAL member

    Quote Originally Posted by enbloc View Post
    Pirates = Politicians
    Quote Originally Posted by Rider View Post
    That's really unfair to pirates. Pirates might rob you, rape you, and/or kill you, but they don't tell you it's for your benefit.

  5. #5
    NES Member soloman02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    9,714

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drgrant View Post
    This is gonna be weird if there is a circuit split, how will that get resolved? Because you know if it goes poorly for the feds, they will appeal it.

    Ultimately I don't think this is going to go anywhere, but it should be fun to watch. It would be funny as hell if the court goes halfway and forces BATFE to acnkowledge the issued stamps as being valid because of the fact that they approved them.

    -Mike
    It is also entirely possible BATFE backs down and allows MG's via Form 1's in exchange for us not going after something else. Who knows what will happen. By the time this case makes it to the appellate level we may have a new president (and thus a new BATFE director).

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drgrant View Post
    This is gonna be weird if there is a circuit split, how will that get resolved? Because you know if it goes poorly for the feds, they will appeal it.

    Ultimately I don't think this is going to go anywhere, but it should be fun to watch. It would be funny as hell if the court goes halfway and forces BATFE to acnkowledge the issued stamps as being valid because of the fact that they approved them.

    -Mike
    Given Miller, and given that machine guns are legal to own (assuming a transferrable gun), I don't see how the '86 law can stand.

    On the other hand, I develop software for a living so everything eventually breaks down to a 1 or 0 in my mind and the fuzzy aspect of the law strikes me as complete BS.
    And now bills were passed, not only for national objects but for individual cases, and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt. - Tacitus

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    2122 N. Clark St.
    Posts
    8,632

    Default

    If the trust is not a person and a human performing tasks (say, manufacturing) for the trust is never in possession of the machinegun, how can the trust's rights as a person or the rights of said human acting through the trust possibly be violated?

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulD View Post
    Given Miller, and given that machine guns are legal to own (assuming a transferrable gun), I don't see how the '86 law can stand.

    On the other hand, I develop software for a living so everything eventually breaks down to a 1 or 0 in my mind and the fuzzy aspect of the law strikes me as complete BS.
    Miller is useless. Heller even makes it clear, it's a limited holding because it was a one sided case.

    I don't have the time right at the moment to read it in detail but it sure as hell appears that this is the case that I was afraid we would see. There are a lot of people who think that Gura "got it wrong" in Heller, despite the fact Gura didn't touch FA in Heller and wasn't responsible for the court mentioning it. These people think they can do it better (despite the fact Gura wasn't really instrumental either way in the wrong they seek to right) and they want to be heroes. I can't tell you how many cases I see fail on their face being helmed by some arrogant ass who thinks he is going to do it all and with style. They end up failing miserably and screwing you and me in the process. I don't know what's happening in this case, but man do I hope this complaint doesn't reflect what is going on here.
    In life, if you don't risk something, you risk everything.
    *Support Comm2A in the fight to protect MA gun rights in the courts.*
    Follow Comm2A on Twitter and Facebook
    The above post does not reflect the opinions of any organization I may be associated with. IANAL

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drgrant View Post
    This is gonna be weird if there is a circuit split, how will that get resolved? Because you know if it goes poorly for the feds, they will appeal it.

    Ultimately I don't think this is going to go anywhere, but it should be fun to watch. It would be funny as hell if the court goes halfway and forces BATFE to acnkowledge the issued stamps as being valid because of the fact that they approved them.

    -Mike
    The worse thing we could get is a circuit split because SCOTUS would take the case immediately and we would be done. No future court would override that decision. The best we can hope for is a new generation on the court who is willing to override Heller's dicta. Time is on our collective sides on NFA issues. But you can't tell the lunatic hero wannabes that.
    In life, if you don't risk something, you risk everything.
    *Support Comm2A in the fight to protect MA gun rights in the courts.*
    Follow Comm2A on Twitter and Facebook
    The above post does not reflect the opinions of any organization I may be associated with. IANAL

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by terraformer View Post
    Miller is useless. Heller even makes it clear, it's a limited holding because it was a one sided case.
    When you have time, could you expand on that? I've always read it as saying the 2nd protects weapons consistent with use in a militia.
    And now bills were passed, not only for national objects but for individual cases, and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt. - Tacitus

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •