.45 Auto primer pockets

**tapetrowsky** · 11-04-2010, 09:59 PM

I just came across some Blazer .45 auto casings that have small pistol primer pockets all other brands of this caliber use the large pistol primers. Anyone know why?

Thanks

**Gammon** · 11-05-2010, 01:59 AM

CCI and Winchester both market 45 ACP ammo with small primer pockets. Winchester uses this brass in their "Non Toxic" ammo. I can only guess that these primers somehow reduce harmfull (lead) emissions. I have been throwing out any small primer 45 brass because it wreaks havoc in my 1050. There is, however, a use for the small primer brass. A top revolver competitor told me that the small primers are much easier to ignite then the large ones. This makes the small primer 45 brass great for 45 ACP revolvers that have been tuned for a light trigger pull.

**DukeInMaine** · 11-05-2010, 07:39 AM

Federal is also using the small pistol primers in their "Lead Free" brass.

The lead in the system is in the chemicals in the primer system. There are two chemicals in the primer cup/anvil assembly, which, when brought together, cause the chemicals to burn. Similar to the chemicals in the "safety matches" that we are familiar with. The second chemical is in the "sandpaper" on the box/book.

The ammo companies found that when they went to the new chemicals (with no lead)... they created MORE fire/GAS than did the old lead version. In order to lower the case pressure, they calculated that a smaller sized primer with the new chemical would do the trick. That is, the small lead free chemical primers have the same flash and gas production as the larger primers with lead.

I sort them out, to facilitate the progressive press. However, I load them both, small primer versions and large primer versions. I found that if you nudge up the powder (do stepped pressure test loads) for the small primer ones, they will perform fine.

Some people still toss them away, but as the lead free thing expands, you'll find that the large primer versions start to become somewhat more scarce. I tend to be somewhat frugal, and load with what I have.

You have to load the small primered 45 ACP brass differently than the large primered ones, but you should be able to develop a good load easily.

**rattletrap1970** · 11-05-2010, 07:57 AM

Some say to throw them out. I keep them segregated with the ends colored with blue Dykem. I keep them for when and if I can't get or don't have large primers.

**DukeInMaine** · 11-05-2010, 08:03 AM

Blue stamp pad with permanent ink (Staples has it) is the fastest way to do head stamp end marking. I use colored permanent markers also for a lot of my marking, but high volumes are best done with the stamp pad technique.

Originally Posted by rattletrap1970

Some say to throw them out. I keep them segregated with the ends colored with blue Dykem. I keep them for when and if I can't get or don't have large primers.

**TonyT** · 11-05-2010, 08:53 AM

Currently I have no need for the small primer pocket 45 ACP brass and therefore toss it into the scrap bucket. I would only save it if all the major manufacturers decided to make 45 ACP with small primer pockets.

**NavelOfficer** · 11-05-2010, 09:39 AM

Don't confuse your ACPs with GAP's either... In another caliber (7.62x39), you may come across R-P cases with small primers, too.
Segregate your 45 ACP and simply load each based on your primer availability. I load the small-primed cases regularly with good results (I can't detect any differnce in end results). Oft times it keeps my brass from being scoffed up by others, too.

**drgrant** · 11-05-2010, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by DukeInMaine

The lead in the system is in the chemicals in the primer system. There are two chemicals in the primer cup/anvil assembly, which, when brought together, cause the chemicals to burn. Similar to the chemicals in the "safety matches" that we are familiar with. The second chemical is in the "sandpaper" on the box/book.

I've never heard of primers referred this way. I always thought there was just a thin coating of lead styphnate in a typical primer cup, and all the anvil does is help crush this little bit of explosive (when the pin hits the cup) which makes it go off and produces a bit of fire and gas.

-Mike

**DukeInMaine** · 11-06-2010, 08:30 PM

http://books.google.com/books?id=Vbr...uction&f=false

**bpm990d** · 11-06-2010, 11:31 PM

The lead styphnate in primers is explosive, but that is not what causes the brisance or flame that ignites the powder. It is an initiator for a fuel in the primer that burns. Typically antimony sulfide. There is also an oxidizer and some other chemicals.

From Ammunition Making by George Frost

A priming mix has many ingredients beyond the initiator. The total effect of these is to create a situation in which potential energy can be kept on tap for years, waiting only for a blow from a firing pin to jump into action and develop a burst of incendiary gas that ignites the powder. The styphnate initiator provides a part of the hot gas, but is too violent and quick acting to used alone....

.....As a whole, then, the primer doesn't really detonate, only its initiator does that. The rest of the mix bums, but at a very high rate of speed. The initiator heats up the other ingredients, using up its own oxygen and igniting the fuel-oxidizer combination of ingredients.

B

EDIT - Table with chemical compositions

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