CO's Considered LEO's?

**asquared** · 04-08-2010, 06:51 PM

LEO status requires that you take an oath, which in turn grants you certain authority. Without this, you are not legally a law enforcement officer. County sheriffs have the authority to swear in their personnel as deputy sheriffs, and some line COs take advantage of this. Policies and procedures for getting deputized vary by county, and there are some bids within the agency that require an officer to be sworn as a deputy sheriff. Just working for a law enforcement agency or sheriffs department does not make you a law enforcement officer...there are plenty of secretaries and community service personnel out there who may even have an ID card that reads "Police Department", but they have never been sworn in. If you're a CO, reserve/auxiliary officer, or similar, you're a LEO once you take the oath...keep in mind that this only gives you statutory powers and not necessarily respect.

**doey59** · 04-09-2010, 03:31 AM

My two cents are this:

When it comes to actual full time legit CO's either working in the jails or prisons, they can be dumbed up to special Police Officers. There is really no technical absolute for them in this state, it depends on what road there on, for what reason, in what context, who there with, what mood the govenor is in, who's a*s they've kissed and a trillion different factors which determine when and where they are considered Police Officers.

Now for what I think is the more important factor:

Should we consider them Police Officers and a member of the community?

I think we should. The fact is this, no Cop who has been doing the job for a bit wants the job the CO's have. No way. Its like their serving the time with the scuzballs. When it comes to the idealistic point of view, "good versus evil, us versus them, the good guys and the bad guys" they are an intrical part.

Do cops in the Northeast give CO's that respect, unfortunately not. I work with many who will treat a CO like any other civilian. I do not agree with it, but it is the way it is. This however is not completely on the Sworn LEO's. Correction departments around here have a reputation for,"taking anyone". It is a common joke that if you can't become a cop, then go be a CO. I have no idea he vetting process for either the Jails or Prisons, but Local and State Cops do not believe there is much of one. I have had NUMEROUS incidents with CO's who have no business being apart of the blue line and should be on the other side of the walll. These negative experiences are common among LEOs to COs but some cops paint the whole group as trouble.

I have met some great CO's and many of whom believe in what they do. They are hard workers and day in and day out show up and do their thing.

I consider them a part of the Blue Line and I treat them like Cops.......even when they get pulled over for driving like absolute a*s clowns.

**CLMN** · 04-09-2010, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by Rob Boudrie

There are two questions:

1 - Are Sheriffs and CO's legally LEOs with the resulting legal impact (for example, being able to carry on school grounds without permission from the school; being able to charge someone who hits them with assault on a police officer, etc.)

2 - Are Sheriffs and CO's culturally accepted as LEOs by the police community.

The answers to #1 and #2 above may differ.

1) Obviously, no.
2) In my dubious experience, yes. I have watched LEOs extend every "professional courtesy" possible to COs just as if they were brothers. And I am not just talking about coffee at Dunkin Donuts.

CLMN

**n1oty** · 04-09-2010, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by doey59

My two cents are this:

When it comes to actual full time legit CO's either working in the jails or prisons, they can be dumbed up to special Police Officers. There is really no technical absolute for them in this state, it depends on what road there on, for what reason, in what context, who there with, what mood the govenor is in, who's a*s they've kissed and a trillion different factors which determine when and where they are considered Police Officers.

Now for what I think is the more important factor:

Should we consider them Police Officers and a member of the community?

I think we should. The fact is this, no Cop who has been doing the job for a bit wants the job the CO's have. No way. Its like their serving the time with the scuzballs. When it comes to the idealistic point of view, "good versus evil, us versus them, the good guys and the bad guys" they are an intrical part.

Do cops in the Northeast give CO's that respect, unfortunately not. I work with many who will treat a CO like any other civilian. I do not agree with it, but it is the way it is. This however is not completely on the Sworn LEO's. Correction departments around here have a reputation for,"taking anyone". It is a common joke that if you can't become a cop, then go be a CO. I have no idea he vetting process for either the Jails or Prisons, but Local and State Cops do not believe there is much of one. I have had NUMEROUS incidents with CO's who have no business being apart of the blue line and should be on the other side of the walll. These negative experiences are common among LEOs to COs but some cops paint the whole group as trouble.

I have met some great CO's and many of whom believe in what they do. They are hard workers and day in and day out show up and do their thing.

I consider them a part of the Blue Line and I treat them like Cops.......even when they get pulled over for driving like absolute a*s clowns.

I'm not sure that LEO hatred is limited just to CO's, Deputy Sheriff's, etc. To be blunt, many LEO's can't get along even amongst themselves. I can still vividly recall my father's response when I was selected for the MSP in the early 80's. He had nothing but utter loathing and contempt towards them and he was a Boston cop. He gave some shit to the trooper who came to my house to conduct an interview. He even threatened to disown me.

**LenS** · 04-09-2010, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by n1oty

I'm not sure that LEO hatred is limited just to CO's, Deputy Sheriff's, etc. To be blunt, many LEO's can't get along even amongst themselves. I can still vividly recall my father's response when I was selected for the MSP in the early 80's. He had nothing but utter loathing and contempt towards them and he was a Boston cop. He gave some shit to the trooper who came to my house to conduct an interview. He even threatened to disown me.

It's sad but so true, at least from my experiences here in MA. Just look at masscops.com for sterling examples of that.

I witnessed the car in front of me hit a bicyclist so I pulled over and waited to give a witness statement to the Stow PD when then arrived (FF/Paramedic witnessed it from a business, had PD and ambulance called and gave aid to the victim). Entire PD responded and I'm standing beside a Stow PO when a unmarked MSP Trooper drives by . . . the Stow PO uttered a profanity about the Trooper loud enough for me to hear it and he didn't know who I was.

One day a Trooper was stopped by a local Sgt and told that his daily cruise thru town (no lights and not responding to any calls) at >50mph in a 30mph zone was unacceptable and he should set a good example instead. Trooper gave him lip and the Sgt said that the next time he spotted him doing that his CO would be called. Trooper got more huffy. Next day he blasts thru town again and Sgt made a call. Trooper got an ass chewing and slowed it down from then on.

When I was a Reserve PO, we were looked upon as expendable slave labor, nothing more. Got no respect from many of our own FT POs, although some appreciated our assistance. Biggest "hater" became a Reserve PO (so that he could work details) after retiring out on a medical however!

**zule** · 04-09-2010, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by CLMN

1) Obviously, no.
2) In my dubious experience, yes. I have watched LEOs extend every "professional courtesy" possible to COs just as if they were brothers. And I am not just talking about coffee at Dunkin Donuts.

CLMN

Wrong Co wouled not be consider LEO'S in this contexts however sworen persons from the sheriffs dept ( deputies) are able to. on question 1

**M1911** · 04-09-2010, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by n1oty

I'm not sure that LEO hatred is limited just to CO's, Deputy Sheriff's, etc. To be blunt, many LEO's can't get along even amongst themselves.

I know a fellow who is an agent for ICE. He knows of a couple situations where federal agents (one was from ICE and the other from the FBI) who were stopped by MA state troopers for typical traffic violations, and were then told that they couldn't carry on their badge. In both cases, the trooper disarmed them, gave them all sorts of lip, threatened to arrest them, then eventually returned their issue handgun and let them go 1+ hour later.

Another time, a pair of ICE agents were transporting two prisoners on a highway in western MA when one of them has a seizure. The agents called for emergency services. While the firemen were treating the individual and readying him for transport to a hospital, an MSP sergeant tells the ICE officers that the prisoner will have to be taken to the infirmary in a state prison, not a hospital. Reportedly, the discussion got a little be heated, at which point one of the ICE agents told the MSP sergeant "You $#@#$!@ MDC cop! We just called you to direct traffic. Go do something useful and direct traffic!" The situation was resolved when the fire captain came over and told all involved that the prisoner was going to a hospital NOW. After the sergeant stalked away, the two other troopers asked the ICE agent: "How did you know he used to be an MDC cop?"

Then there was the time that ICE agents transporting prisoners for deportation via Logan Airport parked their ICE van in front of the terminal and then took their prisoners inside. They parked the van where they always do. It's a US government van, with government plates, ICE shield on the side, etc. After putting the prisoners on the plane with their escorts, the ICE agents left the terminal to find that the MSP had towed their van.

Back when the federal court house used to be in Park Square, one day a Boston cop tried to tell a federal protective service agent that he couldn't park his marked federal cruiser next to the court house. Much jovial repartee ensued

Willy-waving and urinary Olympics between police agencies is certainly not new. How often it happens is not clear to me.

Jose · 04-10-2010, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by MJL0618

Some(Cops) will still say CO's aren't LEO's but I'm not 100% positive who it was (I think it was George Bush) passed a bill stating CO's are now considered LEO''s.

A) Congress passes bills. The President signs bills into law.
B) The Federal government has ZERO authority to declare or not declare anyone not in federal service LEO or not.
C) Each state decides, on its own, what requirements must be met for someone to be a sworn law enforcement officer.
D) In some states, the legal, official term is still Peace Officer. Mine being one of them.

As for the Sheriff controversy, that is an issue in little New England states. Outside of there you had best believe Sheriffs and their deputies are sworn peace officers with FULL arrest and law enforcement powers.

In fact, by statute, their authority and jurisdictions encompasses their entire county and they can and will patrol and enforce law anywhere within that jurisdiction without needing the consent or approval of municipal police departments.

As a matter of fact, any county Sheriff in Ohio has more powers than the Commissioner of the Highway Patrol. We do not have a state police.

**n1oty** · 04-10-2010, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jose

A) Congress passes bills. The President signs bills into law.
B) The Federal government has ZERO authority to declare or not declare anyone not in federal service LEO or not.
C) Each state decides, on its own, what requirements must be met for someone to be a sworn law enforcement officer.
D) In some states, the legal, official term is still Peace Officer. Mine being one of them.

As for the Sheriff controversy, that is an issue in little New England states. Outside of there you had best believe Sheriffs and their deputies are sworn peace officers with FULL arrest and law enforcement powers.

In fact, by statute, their authority and jurisdictions encompasses their entire county and they can and will patrol and enforce law anywhere within that jurisdiction without needing the consent or approval of municipal police departments.

As a matter of fact, any county Sheriff in Ohio has more powers than the Commissioner of the Highway Patrol. We do not have a state police.

Very true. My in-laws live in Ross County and I thought about applying to the Ross County Sheriff's Department and the Highway Patrol back in 1980 as I came off active duty, but got hung up on residency requirements. But you are correct. Out that way, the Sheriff and his Deputy's are the big kahuna's and nobody screws with them.

**mpd61** · 04-16-2010, 09:59 AM

full-time DOC and County C.O.'s earn Full-tme respect from the majority of Police Officers.
conversely, they are not considered LEO by most cops or by statute.

Deputy Sheriffs do have some limited police powers for "breach of peace" offenses. Out of this common law power they have the ability to enforce some Chapter 90 civil motor vehicle laws that arise to "breach of peace" offenses.
(see Comm v. Baez)

Having established that, they have no specific STATUTORY authority to perform patrol functions. They have no established policies/procedures for 911 patrol response within their respective jurisdictions. In the two cases where sheriffs attempted to provide city patrol functions it went away quickly and quietly because they were simply NOT set up or trained properly to answer 911 calls for service.
In Massachusetts, the PRIMARY function of CO's working for the State (DOC) or County (sheriff) is the custody and care of inmates.

Riding Motorcycles in parades and diverting federal funds away from legitimate state/municipal POLICE agencies to buy Boats/ATVs/Mobile Command Centers that have nothing to do with inmate custody and care is illegal. Just ask NEMLEC and Middlesex Sheriff.

CO's Considered LEO's?

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