Non-Ham: Radio Service ideas needed

**Chris** · 02-12-2010, 12:45 PM

Hi guys.

As most/many/all of you know, I'm very involved with the operations of the annual Pan-Mass Challenge.

We've done a recent review of communication needs and are looking to replace everything we've been using if something better exists. First off, we can't get everyone a ham ticket, or shadow everyone with a ham operator, so all the wonderful infrastructure that exists for that service isn't going to work. For ultimate public safety, we have one of those homeland security funded mobile command posts assigned to us for the weekend, so getting quick contact with police, fire and medical isn't an issue. Its the comms related with the ride itself that is being looked at.

We need 2 basic systems:

1) Local communication

For local communications, we need portable radios/headsets capable of covering an honest 1 mile radius in a suburban setting both inside and outside buildings. We have five major sites. Sturbridge, Wellesley, and Bourne are all large campus/resort settings with multiple operations spread all over and need to be able to contact each other. The leaders in each of these areas will practically live on the radio, so comfort and ease of use is important. I'd love to use a lower power radio with a repeater in these locations.

Provincetown is another animal. We have multiple sites with many people covering most of the town. Currently, we place a repeater in the monument tower which seems to do the trick, so I'd like to keep that setup.

The radios need to be able to hold a day's worth of power (yes, I know it matters what the duty cycle is) or be able to be rapidly recharged so that fresh radios/batteries can be rotated as needed. I'd like if the radios can be setup to utilize both simplex as well as repeater operation. (and temporary repeater installation would be possible at all sites) A main calling channel and several 'private' channels to take critical operations to are needed. FRS and GMRS don't seem to be the right services. FRS for a sheer lack of range and GMRS for the limited channels (although it does allow repeaters) and odd licensing which doesn't seem to allow 'company' licenses..

I'm sure that there is some kind of commercial product out there and some kind of FCC license that can be had to service this kind of need, but I'm not sure what the options are or what kind of costs are involved. In the past, we've rented Motorola radios and batteries, but their condition is usually "well worn" to "worn out". The ride is looking to invest in their own equipment.

I am not concerned with people listening as we already have protocols to avoid any names over the air. I'm more concerned with all day use and reliability.

2) Mobile Communication.

We cover roads from Sturbridge to Wellesley, to Bourne, to Provincetown. Our base of operations at Mass Maritime Academy in Bourne (on the canal) and must be able to reliably communicate with any unit anywhere in the state. Our vehicles are rentals, personal, or loaners, so we can't install anything permanent. A Mag mount antenna attached to a simple mobile plugged into the lighter socket is perfectly acceptable.

In the past we used a trunked radio, but as the ride grew, you had different sections on different frequencies which really made it hard to find the vehicle you wanted. More recently we had NExtel donate phones and service, but this has two faults. 1) it's person to person, so anyone not on the conversation could not hear what was going on. Yes, they can set up 'groups', but due to technical issues the groups could not be larger than 6. Last year I had 50 phones and had to be really careful who got them because demand was far higher than that.

Multiple channels would be ideal, but not necessary as everyone has a cell phone that can be used for more critical communications.

The trick here isn't the equipment, but how to get the range needed with reliability. Most of our ride tries to stay off the beaten path to avoid being a traffic hazard. (for some reason, 5,000 bicycles and your average Saturday and Sunday traffic don't seem to get along all the time - go figure)

So, if anyone has any suggestions regarding either of these two radio services, please share.

**C-pher** · 02-12-2010, 01:51 PM

I know that you said no Ham Radio...but the whole Boston Marathon is run by Ham Operators.

Why not work with a group that's already used to doing this and getting their input on this? The Norwood Club is HUGE with working on the Marathon...

Just saying, you'll get the distance, the use of people that have already been doing this...and people that are comfortable with this type of event.

**lord1234** · 02-12-2010, 02:18 PM

My uncle participates in the ham radio coordination of the Boston Marathon every year. I know he would probably happily volunteer his time for this as well.

**Chris** · 02-12-2010, 02:46 PM

Yes, the MMRA is also a huge participant with the Marathon and with the Charles River Regatta. I've worked both in the past. That service is all based on stationary locations with bodies everywhere. For 26 miles and 8 towns over a closed course, it's not that hard to do. Our event is longer than 350 miles covering 2 full days (and even some night logistics) involving 47 cities and towns on roads that are not closed to the public. Our "rest areas" double the population of many of the towns they are situated in. And be sure to add in a number of off-route errors that are made (even Billy Star managed to take a group off route one year).

The road crew is about 43-48 vehicles depending on volunteers. We operate out of small mini-vans where one person is a bicycle mechanic and the other is a nurse, doctor, paramedic, or EMT. That leaves room to seat only 3 riders, or one that needs to lay down. Really can't carry an extra body there. In the transport vehicles, space is greater, but each crew takes a rider seat. Except for the bus, we only have one person assigned to those 15 passenger vans.

I don't even know a Ham repeater or even a repeater network that can cover half the ride. You'd be coordinating multiple clubs/repeater owners, or setting up cross-repeat over HF.

The route coverage issue is not a simple one. There has been talk of using the event as a yearly 'test' of the statewide emergency network. I'd love to see that happen, but I can't plan on it as there are way too many fiefdoms that need to be appeased to make it happen.

**THUNDERCHIEF** · 02-12-2010, 05:24 PM

Well then there is not going to be an easy answer. But I think that the event organizers should look into getting GMRS licenses for everyone that needs a radio. But the cost for equipment is gonna be big, I wonder if you could get a grant. The only other thing I can think of is FRS but the range on those is very limited.

**MACGYVR** · 02-12-2010, 08:21 PM

Nextel Push to Talk. It was designed for this. You can setup groups etc. Work just like 2 way radios.
Don't bother iwth the stores for this though. Go directly to Nextel for them to get the correct phones and setup.

The govt uses it like this.

**R1ch** · 02-13-2010, 09:58 AM

How about working with some of the ham repeaters and have them link via echolink for this. It would probably work well (technically), but be a nightmare to keep that many repeaters under 'net control' for the time period.

Heck, if you could get everyone using a cell phone for internet access, you could use a IM chat or voice client to talk without licenses (or use echolink).

Good luck!

**Chris** · 02-15-2010, 09:07 AM

Some neat ideas...

We were sponsored by Nextel a few years. The ride has 50 gps phones. Coverage on the route is VERY spotty in many places. PTT groups in theory are great, in practice fail miserably beyond about 4 or so. If you are out of service range, you can easily get kicked from the group and not know it. Or, if you needed to contact someone outside your group, both of you would be booted from your group. Since the people who are using the equipment are mostly non-technical, it didn't work out very well as they would get kicked and not be able to get back in. The GPS Comet tracker is pretty good and we'll keep the phones for that, but for communications, not so good. Heck, the person who is in charge of all the medical could not get the hang of it at all and used their person cell phone which made some things more difficult.

Ham radio would be great and I know a lot of the technology already is in place to do the links etc. except we can't fit another body into the vans and there is no way we'd get enough licensed operators from the crew. (when I asked a few years ago, I got 5 out of about 80 people that would be interested plus the 6 or so of us that already have a ticket.)

The cellphone with internet chat might work if we could get a verizon or ATT to step up. My only real fear with this is again the technical issue of keeping it foolproof. Even with the GPS, until I made it an automatic run item on startup, there were always a few people who could never follow the directions and had to be talked through the process. With a 'few' it wasn't too bad, but that process was just to call up a menu and select a menu item. If I can't reliably get people to do that, logging into a chat is likely to be more of an issue. Heck getting people to switch a radio from one trunk to another caused problems when all they had to do was turn a knob. That would be less of a problem today as everyone has a cell phone that could be used to call them and tell them to switch, but if a system exists that didn't require that effort, that would be better.

I won't even get into the amount of time teaching the push to talk process on the Nextel involved. "you have to wait for the tone" "you need to let go to listen" etc.

I know I'm doing nothing but shooting down ideas. Not because they are bad - heck, I love many of them. I'd love to get 2 meter HTs and have volunteers rig up and maintain the repeater links and watch the magic happen, but logistically I can't fit a body with a license into the vehicles. I need to explain the issues I've had on the hopes that someone can tell me that I'm not justified with them. You need to understand that we thought the Nextel PTT was going to be the perfect situation. But, after 4 years of using it, getting the 'experts' involved, and seeing it fail again and again, it just isn't worth the hassle.

**R1ch** · 02-15-2010, 10:02 AM

If you can't get another body in the vans, then get a ham to shadow the van in another vehical. Many would be happy to do this. I'd volunteer if it could offset my (bike) rider's cost (she stopped riding a while ago due to the costs involved).

With such a large area to cover, and your non-techincal (radio savvy) staff, you application is crying for ham-radio operators. So find a way to include them, rather than exclude them. ;)

Good luck and let us know what you finally decide to do. It's an interesting dillema.

**Chris** · 02-15-2010, 11:59 AM

Trust me, I'm not trying to exclude. I've just yet to see a viable solution. 'Shadowing' does not sound like a good solution. I'd still have comms issues to and from the paired vehicles, more vehicle issues on the road, and potentially issues with parking and such for another set of vehicles in some venues. I'd also have the likely need for 2 people in each 'chase' vehicle as driving along the same roads as the ride is not the time to attempt to use the radios involved.

As for the costs, that's a symptom of the overall problem. The ride is at saturation. So, the only way to maximize the donation is to make the 'costs' as high as the saturation rate will bear. As it is we turn away people every year because we can't fit them into the ride logistically.

But keep the ideas coming please.

Hmm. Do you think we can get Hams to volunteer to get trained as Bicycle Mechanics and EMTs? (^_^)

Non-Ham: Radio Service ideas needed

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