where S&W get the bad rep from

**dnepro-mike** · 07-06-2012, 08:22 AM

some time ago when i just got into shooting/owning guns i overheard on few occasions about s&w being not very good quality. at the time i didn't have much experience with any guns and understandably those words left an imprint in my brain, and ever since i feel somewhat stand-off-ish towards S&W, although initially i loved how M&p looks and feel an wanted to get it as my first handgun. now i'm hearing the opposite - S&w is good/great quality.
maybe what i've heard was a BS and i took it at face value due to lack of personal experience but damage was already done. any thoughts on where bad rep might come from?

**Scarecrow** · 07-06-2012, 08:26 AM

I am new to shooting civilian, but I have the same experience with Glock. First person I talked to swore they would never own a Glock for x/y/z, and now I do not want one. I think all it takes is for you to talk to the guy who had issues with a particular gun to get a bad mindset about a particular brand. Could have been he had a used gun by S&W that was not maintained and it FTF'd on him repeatedly, or any of the thousands of issues bad maintenance can cause, and the first instinct is to blame the gun rather than taking responsibility for operator error.

I have been wrong before, YMMV.

**AF83** · 07-06-2012, 08:27 AM

I have a S&W 908 and I love it. It is a single stack 9mm with a 3.5" barrel. Great carry gun. I have put alot or rounds through it as did my friend who owned it before me. The gun as never had one FTF of FTE. I couldn't ask for a more reliable firearm.

**Fixxah** · 07-06-2012, 08:28 AM

Ownership was changed a couple of times IIRC, and now they are great again. YMMV

Get what you are comfortable with and try them all before you buy. Many members are very generous with their toys and time.

**alohadoug** · 07-06-2012, 08:30 AM

I think most of the issues with S&W go back a ways. Between the argeement with Pres Clinton and the association with the original Crime Bill (basically, S&W made an agreement with the Devil in order to get a leg up in government contracting) and issue they had with their Second/Third generation semi's ("Gun of the Week"), many people developed a bad taste for S&W. That taste continues even with the new management/ownership and with new products.

Everyone has their own opinion, you just need experience to form your own.

Aloha

**Rob Boudrie** · 07-06-2012, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by dnepro-mike

any thoughts on where bad rep might come from?

S&W has made some absolutely excellent guns - their M&P pistol series, their AR15, 1911s and pretty much all their revolvers are decent quality guns. But, S&W doesn't always get it right - the Sigma wasn't exactly a great gun, and even the S&W person I talked to told me he expected the service live of a .380 Sigma to be around 300 rounds.

S&W does well with their "lifetime service" plan. Unlike some other companies (including some generally regarded as "higher end"), you won't hear S&W using the term "Acceptable service life" if you shoot your alloy frame gun to the point where the frame cracks - they'll just repair it (assuming it was bought after they added the "lifetime" plan).

**JoseyWales** · 07-06-2012, 08:33 AM

For one thing, they now use Metal Injection Molding for some of their revolver parts.

They are sacrificing quality so that they can speed up the manufacturing process which is always a bad thing.

**Rob Boudrie** · 07-06-2012, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by JoseyWales

For one thing, they now use Metal Injection Molding for some of their revolver parts.

Good point - I forgot about that. Unfortunately, the nature of the beast is that you get this sort of thing except at the very highest end, and it's not limited to S&W.

**Scarecrow** · 07-06-2012, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by JoseyWales

For one thing, they now use Metal Injection Molding

Isn't that what happened to Wolverine?

**Sweeney** · 07-06-2012, 08:39 AM

From a friend of a friend who works there... I know... Anyway, it was stated that as the rush to buy guns increased, production increased as did the rush to get product to market. This, in turn, let to less attentive QC and fewer 'finishing' steps in manufacture.

From my own observation; my sister bought a new Walther PPK-S. Every edge on the thing was like a razor blade and there was a huge burr on the muzzle. My friend bought a new M&P40 in which the striker broke four times while dry firing. He also bought a new Performance Center .357 (not sure of the model) on which the barrel kept loosening. After being returned several times it was determined that the frame was cracked. He no longer owns any S&W products.

I had a S&W 1911 for a while and it never felt 'right'. I replaced it with a Sig 1911 GSR and thought, Oh, that's how it's suppose to feel. My Ithaca 1911 that I cobbled together with mostly war time manufactured parts has better fit than that Smith.

Perhaps things have change in the past few years... I don't know but, I find myself still shying away from S&W's new products.

I'd like to buy a Smith sometime but if I do it will be and old one.

where S&W get the bad rep from

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