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Interesting Gap in CT "Assault Weapons" Law?

This is a discussion on Interesting Gap in CT "Assault Weapons" Law? within the Connecticut Laws forums, part of the Gun Laws category; I've done a lot of searching, and I don't think this has been asked before... In CT, a pistol is ...

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    Default Interesting Gap in CT "Assault Weapons" Law?

    I've done a lot of searching, and I don't think this has been asked before...

    In CT, a pistol is a firearm with barrel less than 12 inches. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder. So any firearm with barrel longer than 12 inches, but not designed to be fired from the shoulder, like many AR/AK pistols, are not affected by laws for pistols or rifles, correct?

    From what I can tell, the CT AWB is one of these laws, so does that mean you can have all the "evil" features on an AR pistol with barrel longer than 12 inches? If this is not correct, then please help me understand by referencing the law that I'm missing.

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    May or may not be a gap. It sounds more like a gray area. While a pistol as you pointed out is any firearm with a barrel shorter than 12 inches, its entirely possible that a firearm without a stock and has a pistol grip might be treated or construed as a pistol. There is some language about pistols (part B) in the AWB including the weight of one and a "pistol" having a magazine outside of the pistol grip which, possibly, might affect a firearm with a barrel longer than 12 inches and no stock.

    Sec. 53-202a. Assault weapons: Definition.
    (B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
    (i) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
    (ii) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;
    (iii) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
    (iv) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
    (v) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm
    ETA: Here's a thought that just popped into my head. Can someone buy a pistol grip (no stock) pump shotgun without having a pistol permit in CT?
    Last edited by sbhaven; 09-11-2010 at 04:03 PM.

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    I wish they would just strike this nonsensical, useless feel good gibberish down.

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    There's an older thread, http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/97321-Registered-NFA-SBR-SBS-immune-to-CT-AWB-!, discussing the short barreled rifle (SBR) and this state's AWB. I know next to nothing about SBR's but it appears that any rifle with a barrel length shorter than 16 inches is an SBR and needs to be a registered by the ATF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_barreled_rifle). Per the Wikipedia link:
    Purchasing a short barreled rifle is accomplished by filing an ATF Form 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, and paying a $200 tax stamp. A short barreled rifle must be transferred by a Class 3 SOT dealer. When a citizen wishes to build a short barreled rifle, he or she must beforehand submit a completed ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm, along with $200 for payment of the tax stamp.
    The rub is that in addition to complying to ATF rules you would also have to make sure the rifle complies with CT's AWB. What this means is, if your SBR barrel is sorter than 12 inches it may be illegal in CT since it would then be considered a pistol and subject to the pistol evil features portion of the AWB. If the barrel length is between 12.1 inches and 15.9 inches and its post ban, than no threaded barrel, no flash hider, no bayo lug, and a fixed stock (if you use one).

    ETA: And yes it would be nice to get rid of the AWB its simply a feel good law for the anti's that only drives up the cost of owning certain types rifles here. The actual functioning of the rifle is unchanged by the AWB.

    ETA2: A closer reading of the CT definition of a rifle seems to imply, in conjunction with the CT definition of a pistol, that any AR that has a barrel longer than 12 inches is considered a rifle and as such would be subject to the AWB if its a post ban version. I make this logic leap (right or wrong ) because most complete AR's tend to be shipped with some kind of a shoulder stock (or is capable of accepting a shoulder stock). And while I don't know the exact history of the AR, I do believe it was designed to have a shoulder stock (hence a rifle) from the outset. Same goes (I think) for the way the AK initially designed.
    http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/glossary/rifle.htm
    RIFLE
    A "rifle" is a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
    The question I guess should be; would a firearm with a barrel longer than 16 inches and which does not have (and was not designed for) a shoulder stock (only a pistol grip) be considered a rifle under our state's firearm statutes?
    Last edited by sbhaven; 09-11-2010 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Adding additional content.

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    I've actually raised similar issues.

    In CT it is illegal to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a car.

    But what about my 10.5" AR15. (Registered as an SBR with the feds)
    By law, it is considered a handgun in CT.

    Here is the rationale for the law: Handgun laws are generally more restrictive than long gun laws. This was an attempt by the state to make buyers of certain SBRs jump through the same hoops that handgun buyers need to jump through. The logic behind this was that these SBRs are easily concealed.

    What they forgot was that you can carry a handgun loaded in a vehicle.

    If I was 60 yrs old and my kids were out of college, I'd volunteer to get arrested for this one.

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    Concurring opinion with dcmon:
    The definition of rifle vs pistol only references barrel length and says nothing about shoulder fired, stock, or anything else. A barrel shorter than 12 inches is not only not falling within a loophole, it actually makes things “worse” for you in terms of the AWB. The AWB pistol provisions are very strict and will eliminate most, if not all, [post ban] SBRs. (magazine outside of pistol grip, 50oz or more weight, hand guards… all bad.)

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    To add onto what tmitney said,

    Semi-auto handguns in CT can not weigh more than 50 ounces and have a barrel shroud (front hand guard) or they are considered to be an AWB by CT law. (see text of statute below)
    That means that any SBR with a bbl less than 12 inches long will be considered to be a handgun. And as a handgun it will be considered to be an AW based on weight, the presence of a barrel shroud and the fact that the mag is outside of the pistol grip.

    That means that the only way to legally possess a SBR with a barrel less than 12" based on an AR, in CT is to do it with a pre-ban non-colt lower receiver.

    This is my "toy" AR. Its SBR'd with the feds and is built on a pre-ban DPMS receiver. It is considered to be a handgun by the state of CT. It is NOT an AW according to CT law only because it was made before the law went into effect and DPMS was not mentioned by name in the law's original text.

    Simple, huh?

    Don






    (B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
    i. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
    ii. a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;
    iii. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
    iv. a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
    v. a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
    Last edited by dcmdon; 10-04-2011 at 03:44 PM.

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    I was just reading this again, and although I really appreciate the thoughtful responses and discussion, I'm not sure that anyone has actually addressed my question directly. Among the replies are mention of SBRs, pistols with barrels shorter than 12 inches and longer than 16 inches, and even shotguns, but I was actually asking about something different.

    Specifically, if I were to build an AR pistol with a 13 inch barrel, then I believe it would not meet CT's legal definition of a pistol, because the barrel is longer than 12 inches, nor would it meet the legal definition of a rifle, because it is not designed to fire from the shoulder (and barrel is shorter than 16 inches). If this is true, then what would prevent me from having all the AWB features present on a post-ban lower, including weight over 50 oz?
    Last edited by SGZip; 10-04-2011 at 08:23 AM.

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    BRILLIANT. Now go test it out.

    Don

    p.s. Seriously, you should have been a lawyer. I just looked at the statutes ( 29-27 + the rifle one, I'll look it up and update this post) and it appears you are right. (I'm not an attorney, so take my opinion for what its worth) My guess is that if you were ever arrested for possession of this, you would be acquitted. On a practical level, the only reason to ever do this would be if you intended to get arrested to test the law. Otherwise, spend the extra $300 for a pre-ban lower.

    p.p.s The other reality of this is that you could shoot this gun for your entire lifetime and never get challenged. I've got evil looking rifles built on pre-ban lowers and have never EVER had anyone question me about it. This includes several encounters with LEOs who came onto private property to investigate "shots fired". One asked me for "your paperwork" for my machine gun, which I refused. (I only have to provide it to ATF if requested) He then asked me for ID. I again refused. (we did not have any handguns, so no legal requirement). So this was a contentious encounter, and he never once paid attention to the 10.5" AR with the bayonet lug, threaded barrel, and flash hider, or the pre-ban AK in .223 with the same evil features.

    Last edited by dcmdon; 10-04-2011 at 09:43 AM.

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    Default AR and AWB pistol defined

    BushMaster makes an AR pistol and they went to a great deal of trouble to use polymer receiver to meet the wt restriction. If Busy can sell it CT you can bet it is right. Maybe a good idea to get specs and use them as guidelines for your build. RRA may have one as well. And did the lower get registered as a rifle?
    A lot of dealers write Rifle in Type of Weapon spot out of habit.
    IANAL but if it is made for shoulder mount it has to have 16" + barrel. If it is not shoulder mount then barrel lenght may not be important, but the empty wt is critical. All it takes is one encounter with a LEO
    and it goes bye-Bye and you do to.
    Laws aside AR 5.56 or .223 pistol are a real waste powder. They make a cool flame when fired and are loud as hell but ballistics probably suck. A good conversation piece but not really practicle. Just my .02 cents worth.
    Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty — and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies. [H.L. Mencken]

    As to this Administration, our current "Obamanation" I see it as Goethe said "There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action."

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