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M1911
07-14-2006, 04:30 PM
Friday, July 14, 2006
Shrewsbury police officer recovering after shooting

By Megan Woolhouse, Globe Staff

A Shrewsbury police officer is in stable condition today after he was shot a few inches below his bullet proof best by a homeowner when he responded to a burglar alarm, police said.

Officer Stephen Rice, 25, underwent surgery on his abdomen and is expected to recover.

Shrewsbury Police Chief Wayne Sampson this afternoon described a hospital visit with Rice, choking up as he recalled that the wounded officer had asked about his partner, who was not injured.

“We respond to thousands of calls like this every year,” Sampson said at a press conference at Town Hall. “We don't want anything like this happening to happen to anybody.”

The last time an officer was shot in Shrewsbury was 31 years ago, he said.

Rice and Officer Ryan Chartrand responded to the alarm at 2:31 a.m. on Farmington Drive, according to a press release posted by police on the town’s Web site.

The homeowner, Mark Ragsdale, 39, had “reportedly” returned home from vacation and “set off the alarm,” the press release said.

A neighbor told the officers that Ragsdale was still on vacation, police said. The officers searched the outside of the home and then went inside.

Police said when Rice reached the second floor, Ragsdale shot him. Rice was taken to the University of Massachusetts Medical Center for surgery.

Ragsdale, who has a licensed to carry firearms in Massachusetts, has not been charged. Shrewsbury police and District Attorney John Conte’s office are investigating the incident. http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2006/07/shrewsbury_poli.html

daceman63
07-14-2006, 04:36 PM
this isn't gonna be good for licensed gun owners.

tele_mark
07-14-2006, 04:38 PM
Unbelievable that in Mass, the homeowner hasn't been charged. True enough, he's negligent in that he should've known without a doubt what his target was, but for him to be in MetroWest and not be sitting there with his license and firearms revoked blows my mind, makes me look at these LEO's with reverence, and gives me a little bit of feeling of hope for this troubled state.

SKS Ray
07-14-2006, 04:38 PM
Reminds me of that old Surefire add that said "Identify Your Target" and had a picture of Santa Claus holding a half eaten cookie with his hands up shielding his eyes from the Surefire light.

daceman63
07-14-2006, 04:40 PM
hopefully the cop will be ok....

I don't know how much it matters but I wonder if he ID'd himself.

M1911
07-14-2006, 04:42 PM
Unbelievable that in Mass, the homeowner hasn't been charged. yet.

derek
07-14-2006, 04:47 PM
I'm surprised his partner didn't light him up. I would have guessed that the LEO's wouldn't have known if he was the home owner or a burgler once the shot was fired.

stinx
07-14-2006, 05:50 PM
Him being in full uniform should be enough. If the home owmer was sure of his target, he would of realized it was a police officer in uniform. The home owner is screwed. Even if the guy argues he was in fear for his life, he has to be able to explain what put him into fear. Somebody being inside your house by itself is not enough, Deadly force can only be used when no other option is left.

JimB
07-14-2006, 06:04 PM
This kinda stinks, i really don't like that LEO's are harmed protecting us.

The shooter was to anxious and did not understand his situation. Take
every precaution.

I was not there and it makes it hard to criticize.

JimB

dreppucci007
07-14-2006, 06:10 PM
I'm surprised his partner didn't light him up. I would have guessed that the LEO's wouldn't have known if he was the home owner or a burgler once the shot was fired.

I thought the same, too.

tele_mark
07-14-2006, 07:01 PM
One thing's for certain -- sprawling, 2 story, 3 car garage McMansion -- this guy had no excuse to not have a safe room set up where he'd have a plan to head to if that alarm he had given enough though to have installed went off. He'd also have had his cell phone, which would've been part of his plan with him, so he could've called the police from his safe room, letting them know where he was in the house.

matt
07-14-2006, 07:46 PM
"Get Out Of My House! I Have A Gun! I've Called The Police!"

...would have saved everyone a lot of trouble and pain...

dreppucci007
07-14-2006, 08:01 PM
...would have saved everyone a lot of trouble and pain...

Yup [thinking]

M1911
07-14-2006, 08:28 PM
Do we know he had a partner?

patio
07-14-2006, 08:40 PM
WordsThat article doesn't tell it but the one on the T&G (http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060714/MEGANEWS/60714002) does, that wasn't an option, read below.

Do we know he had a partner?Yes he did.


SHREWSBURY— A police officer was shot in the abdomen by a homeowner early today while responding to a burglar alarm.

According to police, Officer Stephen Rice, 25, whose one-year anniversary of joining the Shrewsbury Police Department is next week, is in stable condition at University of Massachusetts Memorial Medical Center’s University Campus in Worcester after surgery for the gunshot wound.

The officer responded to a burglar alarm about 2:30 a.m. Friday with another officer, Ryan Chartrand, and was shot by the homeowner, 39-year-old Mark P. Ragsdale, after entering the house and reaching the second floor.


The two officers had been let into the home at 17A Farmington Drive by a neighbor after searching outside the residence, Police Chief A. Wayne Sampson said at a press conference.

The neighbor, who had a key and was on the alarm company list of persons to notify regarding the residence, told police Mr. Ragsdale was on vacation and that the home should be empty, Chief Sampson said.

Unbeknown to police, however, Mr. Ragsdale, who is president and chief executive officer of Ragsdale Motor Group and whose family owns auto dealerships in Shrewsbury and Spencer, had reportedly come home and set off the alarm.

Chief Sampson said the officers, who were in full uniform and arrived in a marked cruiser, noticed a dim light on the second floor and saw a shadowy figure.

They entered the home to search the interior and Officer Rice was shot by Mr. Ragsdale, who was alone in the home, as he reached the second floor.

According to the chief, Officer Rice was shot with a Smith & Wesson semi-automatic handgun. Mr. Ragsdale is properly licensed to carry firearms in the state, according to police.

Chief Sampson said Mr. Ragsdale was not taken into custody and has not been charged with any crime, but made a statement at the scene.

“He was very upset about the circumstances,” the chief said.

Mr. Ragsdale had been at several locations during the day before arriving home, but Chief Sampson said he could not disclose where Mr. Ragsdale went because the investigation by Shrewsbury police and state police assigned to District Attorney John J. Conte’s office is still ongoing.

According to the chief, Mr. Ragsdale told the alarm company that he set off the alarm, but the alarm company did not notify police. Chief Sampson said he did not know the name of the alarm company.

The chief said he had spoken with Officer Rice, a single life-long resident of town who lives with his parents, and that he is doing well. Seeming upset, Chief Sampson paused while saying, “He was just concerned about the other officers.”

“He is with his family and his fellow officers,” Assistant Town Manager Michael R. Hale said at the press conference.

The chief said the department has contacted its employee assistance program and that the other officers are doing well.

“We don’t want this to happen to anybody,” he said. “We’re here to protect the community.”

Chief Sampson said the department will review protocols used during such incidents, but that different situations are handled in various ways.

In this case, the officers did not announce who they were and that they were entering the home. Chief Sampson said such an announcement could be useful in certain circumstances but could also give away an officer’s tactical advantage depending on the situation.

“These are decisions police officers make every day,” he said. “The officers used the appropriate discretion.”

The last time a Shrewsbury police officer was shot in the line of duty was
in 1975, according to Chief Sampson. Patrolman James Lonchiadis was shot
and killed by a 16-year-old who was attempting to steal a car.

dreppucci007
07-14-2006, 08:50 PM
Do we know he had a partner?

Yup, mentioned here in the original article as well:



Friday, July 14, 2006
Shrewsbury police officer recovering after shooting

By Megan Woolhouse, Globe Staff

A Shrewsbury police officer is in stable condition today after he was shot a few inches below his bullet proof best by a homeowner when he responded to a burglar alarm, police said.

Officer Stephen Rice, 25, underwent surgery on his abdomen and is expected to recover.

Shrewsbury Police Chief Wayne Sampson this afternoon described a hospital visit with Rice, choking up as he recalled that the wounded officer had asked about his partner, who was not injured.

“We respond to thousands of calls like this every year,” Sampson said at a press conference at Town Hall. “We don't want anything like this happening to happen to anybody.”

The last time an officer was shot in Shrewsbury was 31 years ago, he said.

Rice and Officer Ryan Chartrand responded to the alarm at 2:31 a.m. on Farmington Drive, according to a press release posted by police on the town’s Web site.

The homeowner, Mark Ragsdale, 39, had “reportedly” returned home from vacation and “set off the alarm,” the press release said.

A neighbor told the officers that Ragsdale was still on vacation, police said. The officers searched the outside of the home and then went inside.

Police said when Rice reached the second floor, Ragsdale shot him. Rice was taken to the University of Massachusetts Medical Center for surgery.

Ragsdale, who has a licensed to carry firearms in Massachusetts, has not been charged. Shrewsbury police and District Attorney John Conte’s office are investigating the incident.

matt
07-14-2006, 09:32 PM
There is video on www.cnn.com

Can't figure out how to copy the link... It is #3 under "Watch Free Video'.

LoginName
07-14-2006, 11:03 PM
Unbelievable that in Mass, the homeowner hasn't been charged. True enough, he's negligent in that he should've known without a doubt what his target was, but for him to be in MetroWest and not be sitting there with his license and firearms revoked blows my mind, makes me look at these LEO's with reverence, and gives me a little bit of feeling of hope for this troubled state.

I can think of one possible reason (from another news article http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060714/MEGANEWS/60714002)

"Unbeknown to police, however, Mr. Ragsdale, who is president and chief executive officer of Ragsdale Motor Group and whose family owns auto dealerships in Shrewsbury and Spencer, had reportedly come home and set off the alarm".

PistolPete
07-14-2006, 11:11 PM
Did anyone notice that the name of the home owner is RAGSDALE??? As in Ragsdale Superstores??? Let's just say that this home owner has some money and will have a good lawyer for sure. I actually hope he isn't charged as he was in his own home early in the morning. I can relate to knowing what your target is before shooting at it but at that time in the morning and someone is in your house it usually isn't a good thing. Hopefully the officer will be OK and will be back to work shortly. This can't be good for anyone.

LenS
07-14-2006, 11:32 PM
This is a tragic mistake, but from the bare factoids we have reported to us (which may or may not be correct):

- The police did everything right under the circumstances. Announcing yourself when you have good reason to think a burglar is present is not a safe thing to do.

- Mr. Ragsdale's only error was that he didn't shout out or light up the area so he could see his "target". He's on the 2nd floor of a 2 floor home at 2AM, other than jumping out a window, he has no real avenue of retreat (if it was a home invasion) and thus using deadly force (regrettably in this situation) is an appropriate measure to take. If he had shouted out, he gives up his tactical advantage just like the police would have had they shouted out in this situation. The fact that he hit his target says he knew where his target was, probably could make out a dark shadow but unable to recognize it as a uniform.

- The alarm company should be strung up by the balls for not notifying the PD that it was a false alarm and that the homeowner was in the house. Had THEY done their job, this incident would NOT have happened. They will be held culpable for major damages if there is a lawsuit. They failed to do their job!

No doubt about it, if this were a peon, not a rich, well respected businessman, his LTC and gun would have been confiscated on the spot at least until the entire investigation was complete. He is getting preferential treatment, but the info we have doesn't point to any wrong-doing by any involved parties (other than the alarm company).

rscalzo
07-15-2006, 12:03 AM
I've been on many burglar alarm calls as we usually ran about 10 to 15 per night. Usually the alarm company will call the subscriber and attempt to verify if a authorized person is on scene. However, some are slower than others. It the units were in the right place at the right time, they could have beat that call.

What makes me wonder is that if the subscriber set off the alarm, he would have been aware of that fact within a minute or two of entering. He should have contacted the alarm company even before they called him. The sad part is that in my experience, some just don't care about the false alarms until we pasted a ordinance charging for false alarms. After getting a bill for a few hundred, they woke up very fast.

Rob Boudrie
07-15-2006, 01:18 AM
No doubt about it, if this were a peon, not a rich, well respected businessman, his LTC and gun would have been confiscated on the spot at least until the entire investigation was complete. He is getting preferential treatment, but the info we have doesn't point to any wrong-doing by any involved parties (other than the alarm company).
Actually, HE would have been confiscated if he were not a person of privilige, power and influence.

BigRich06
07-15-2006, 01:55 AM
Its def not a good thing that the LEO got shot but It's pretty easy to monday mornin QB.... You never know in the heat of the moment u might have done the same by mistake...

tele_mark
07-15-2006, 03:51 AM
I can think of one possible reason (from another news article http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060714/MEGANEWS/60714002)

"Unbeknown to police, however, Mr. Ragsdale, who is president and chief executive officer of Ragsdale Motor Group and whose family owns auto dealerships in Shrewsbury and Spencer, had reportedly come home and set off the alarm".


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. No rocket science involved.[thinking]

tele_mark
07-15-2006, 03:54 AM
Did anyone notice that the name of the home owner is RAGSDALE??? As in Ragsdale Superstores??? Let's just say that this home owner has some money and will have a good lawyer for sure. I actually hope he isn't charged as he was in his own home early in the morning. I can relate to knowing what your target is before shooting at it but at that time in the morning and someone is in your house it usually isn't a good thing. Hopefully the officer will be OK and will be back to work shortly. This can't be good for anyone.


Yeah, but his alarm was going off at 2AM, and he would know that the alarm company would've dispatched the police (which didn't seem to happen) and/or call the alternate contacts because he was on "vacation, which did happen.

Buffalo Bill
07-15-2006, 05:42 AM
this isn't gonna be good for licensed gun owners.
and he won't be charged. The homeowner had every right to use deadly force. His alarm went off, the officer did not identify himself as a police officer, and the homeowner reacted to the intruder.
This is NOT going to be a bad day for licensed gun owners. Why do you think the Chief stated that the PD would have to look at their protocols? He knows the shooting occured because the officer didn't identify himself, and because the entrusted neighbor wasn't aware that the owner had returned home. As he stated in an interview, when asked why the officer didn't identify himself as such, 'If you do identify yourself, and there are multiple intruders, you can give up tactical advantage.'
All this being said, I hope the officer was not badly injured and will recover fully. We can't afford to have a "warrior" injured or killed.

matt
07-15-2006, 09:33 AM
- The police did everything right under the circumstances. Announcing yourself when you have good reason to think a burglar is present is not a safe thing to do.

Not being LEO, I can't really comment here... since the LEO is entering the home and trapping the "burglar", I guess I can see this.


- Mr. Ragsdale's only error was that he didn't shout out or light up the area so he could see his "target". He's on the 2nd floor of a 2 floor home at 2AM, other than jumping out a window, he has no real avenue of retreat (if it was a home invasion) and thus using deadly force (regrettably in this situation) is an appropriate measure to take. If he had shouted out, he gives up his tactical advantage just like the police would have had they shouted out in this situation. The fact that he hit his target says he knew where his target was, probably could make out a dark shadow but unable to recognize it as a uniform.

"Giving up his tactical advantage" make the LARGE assumption that the burglar is after the homeowner, not his stuff. Maybe I'm being naive, but it seems to me that any burglar would much rather leave the home than confront a homeowner with a gun. In this case, the homeowner is the one trapped in the house and his best tactical advantage comes from avoiding confrontation in the first place.


- The alarm company should be strung up by the balls for not notifying the PD that it was a false alarm and that the homeowner was in the house. Had THEY done their job, this incident would NOT have happened. They will be held culpable for major damages if there is a lawsuit. They failed to do their job!

Holding the alarm company responsible is weak. The homeowner chose to pull the trigger, the LEO chose not to announce himself.


No doubt about it, if this were a peon, not a rich, well respected businessman, his LTC and gun would have been confiscated on the spot at least until the entire investigation was complete. He is getting preferential treatment, but the info we have doesn't point to any wrong-doing by any involved parties (other than the alarm company).

When I grow up I want to be a "rich, well respected businessman" who can do no wrong!

KMaurer
07-15-2006, 10:00 AM
Trying to determine who's at fault is generally a useful exercise to avoid future bad results. In most screw-ups, there's more than one person at fault, sometimes everybody and often in multiple ways. The opposite can also be true; even if every simgle person does exactly the right thing things can still turn out terribly wrong.

Ken

SiameseRat
07-15-2006, 10:10 AM
tough call on this one. They should turn it into an episode of CSI.

I think the main lesson we have learned is:

If you live in MA, make sure you know the balance in your savings account before you pull the trigger...

LoginName
07-15-2006, 10:21 AM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. No rocket science involved.[thinking]

Wouldn't it be something if he turned out to be a generous contributer to Reillys campaign?

stinx
07-15-2006, 01:17 PM
there is no requiremnt to identify yourself when responding to what you think is a B/E in Progress. Being in uniform satisfies that requirment. If the home owner armed himself and went looking for the intruder he can not claim self defense. You must be in fear to claim self defense. How much fear are you in , if you go activley looking for a B/E suspect. Deadly force can only be used if there is no other means to prevent you from being harmed.

TY43215
07-15-2006, 01:56 PM
Unfortunately, this is why they train K9. Don't know if Shrewsbury still has them as a lot of PDs are not replacing them when they retire.

It's easy to Monday Morning Quarterback any of these incidents. I feel for the Officer, his partner, his family and co workers. I also feel for the shooter. He did something no one ever wants to do and must live with it justified or not.

It is a sad time for all in Shrewsbury. I am just glad he did not join the officer from 31 years ago. I remember when Jim was killed and that was a very sad time also.

Best of luck to all involved.

Edited to add: Until you have searched a strange dark house for an intruder, you have no idea what it is like.

rscalzo
07-15-2006, 04:50 PM
Most smaller departments in NJ have done away with the K9's for budget reasons. Plus the dogs are have very specific tasks. A bomb dog isn't a drug dog, etc.

Plus in NJ the rank and filed screwed themselves somewhere. A lawsuit was filed mandating large payments for K-9 officers to cover the time they take care of the dog at home. This was in addtion to their payments to cover the cost of the dog so some towns did away with the program. Some of the motorcycle squads went the same way.

stinx
07-15-2006, 05:04 PM
ITs a bad situation for all involved. Im surprised the liberal press is not all over the fact the guy had an LTC and these should be done away with Bla blah blah

TY43215
07-15-2006, 05:37 PM
Most smaller departments in NJ have done away with the K9's for budget reasons. Plus the dogs are have very specific tasks. A bomb dog isn't a drug dog, etc.

Plus in NJ the rank and filed screwed themselves somewhere. A lawsuit was filed mandating large payments for K-9 officers to cover the time they take care of the dog at home. This was in addtion to their payments to cover the cost of the dog so some towns did away with the program. Some of the motorcycle squads went the same way.

This has not happened here. Many Departments still have a Patrol Dogs. MSP has K9 (26 Handlers)as do some Sheriff Departments. Shrewsbury, Westboro, Grafton, and other towns had them at one time, but I have been out of that area too long and have lost touch.

Many towns have them in my area as well as County. The patrol K9 is the best partner you can have.
http://www.bsheriff.net/k9.htm




Regards,

NH40VE
07-15-2006, 05:57 PM
hopefully the cop will be ok....

I don't know how much it matters but I wonder if he ID'd himself.

i was just gonna ask the same question as to if the officers announced that they were entering the house..

stinx
07-15-2006, 05:58 PM
my dept just got a dog last year. I have heard they may try and get a seond one in the future.

rscalzo
07-15-2006, 06:10 PM
Why would officers announce their entry into a house while looking for burglars? That would not be the brightest thing to do.

One of the first rules of defensive handguns is to know your target. But at this point there are too many unanswered questions to make a determination about what really happened.

Buffalo Bill
07-16-2006, 07:11 AM
tough call on this one. They should turn it into an episode of CSI.

I think the main lesson we have learned is:

If you live in MA, make sure you know the balance in your savings account before you pull the trigger...

Mass. General Law states that if a gun owner involved in a deadly force incident is cleared of any criminal wrongdoing, and the shooting was justified, whether resulting in injury or death, neither the perpertrator or his/her family(in the case of death) can sue the shooter civilly.

tele_mark
07-16-2006, 08:08 AM
Mass. General Law states that if a gun owner involved in a deadly force incident is cleared of any criminal wrongdoing, and the shooting was justified, whether resulting in injury or death, neither the perpertrator or his/her family(in the case of death) can sue the shooter civilly.

I think she meant the "criminal wrongdoing", and being charged part. We'll see, but it's going to be hard to judge without a "control case" involving some poor schmuck making $13/hr shooting a cop responding to a break in while he's holed up in hi trailer.....

MarkM
07-16-2006, 08:10 AM
I think the homeowner either made a ton of mistakes or there are parts of the story that aren't getting accurately reported.

So you come home early from vacation, forget to deactivate your alarm and set it off. Most alarm companies I know do not contact the police until they have tried calling the numbers for the homeowner. Presumably the phone rings at the guys home but he doesn't answer it and provide the codeword?.

Did the homeowner deactivate the alarm at the control panel, I would think so.

What did the homeowner do after that? did he bring his luggage inside, close the garage door, make sure everything was locked, then go to bed? or did he leave the house unlocked so the officer could easily enter?

Then the police officer arrives, did he break into the house? alerting the homeowner and make him grab a gun, or did he enter through an open door (making him very suspicious that a break-in was occuring??

All smells very fishy to me.

MarkM
07-16-2006, 08:18 AM
Looked into it some more and found more details.

Here's an interesting fact from another news story:


He provided the proper password to the alarm company, but police say the company failed to notify officers that it was a false alarm.

http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=38469

That is why my alarm is not linked directly to the police, the only way the police get called is if I don't respond to the alarm company or give the wrong password.

....

Now another story sheds more light on it:


Rice and officer Ryan Chartrand responded and spoke to a neighbor, who said the Ragsdale family was on vacation and the house was empty. The neighbor had a key to Ragsdale's home and let the officers in, police said.

http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=38454

So not only did the alarm company screw up, a busybody neighbor (who probably called the police in the first place about the alarm), says the homeowner is on vacation, and them lets the police into the house.

Very sad story, seems to me like a nosy neighbor and an incompetent alarm company caused the officer to get shot. :(

tele_mark
07-16-2006, 08:51 AM
The neighbor was one of the people on the trusted list to be called if the home owner was on vacation/didn't respond.

highlander
07-16-2006, 09:00 AM
I woundn't call the neighbor a busybody he did have a key and I hope if my house was being broken into vandalized my neighbors would call .
Come to think of it isn't this what the PD tell us if you see a crime call us and we'll handle it don't be a hero etc

rscalzo
07-16-2006, 03:19 PM
I don't find it unusual that the alarm company didn't call. They routinely would not even call in alarms for ten to fifteen minutes after the activation.

All alarm companies have a call list with up to three or more local residents or relitives with access. Without this access, the alarm may not reset and continue to sound. Each time the alarm company would get another signal, they will call the PD who will continue to respond tying up resourses. That's one reason we passed our alarm ordinance. We sometimes would get 20 calls per night on commercial alarms as no one would respond. At up to $500.00 per false alarm, they started to take notice.

If the proper code was entered in the required amount of time, the alarm should not have sounded unless it was faulty.

Most PD's no longer maintain the alrm panels as in the past. Way too many alarm companies and that ties up the Dispatcher Personnel. They would now be required to attempt the phone contact and attempt to contact back up subscribers. In addtion, they would be required to maintain the database. We got rid of all in house alarm boards years ago.

Any direct dial alarms are comtroled and once again we do not maintain databases of subsriber personnel.

But the bottom line is that the officer will survive with no (hopefully) lasting injuries. And we always said, in our line of work, sh*t happens...

reinbeau
07-16-2006, 09:07 PM
My mother's alarm company doesn't call, the police are sent and they simultaneously call one of us (three siblings that live in the area). Unfortunately my mom does some bonehead things kinda frequently, it's a good thing the Norwell police are understanding of an old woman living alone in a huge house... [thinking]

stinx
07-16-2006, 10:34 PM
if a police officer blasted at a shadow and it resulted in the wrong person being shot the media,liberals and cop haters would be all over him. The officer making entrey into the house would not be illegal as some one suggested. I know its happened at my dept, guys resond to an alrm the house appears ok no open doors/signs of forced entry so you clear. The nexy day the day shift gets called for a past B/e at the house. Its a horrible thing that happened to the gentleman that shot the Officer and to the injured Officer.

daceman63
07-17-2006, 08:08 AM
I have an alarm and maybe it's just me, but I've tripped it by mistake and got the call from the alrarm company and even though I gave my code word I still looked for the police to come. Most times they didn't but I rember twice they showed up anyway. The way my house was configured I could see out through the back from the front and notced flashlights in the backyard and then the knock on the door. When we were selling our house the realtor forgot to deactivate the motions and the cat set off the sensor and the alarm. I got the call on my cell and when I spoke to the alarm company they told me the police investigated and saw no signs of entry so they deemed the site secure and left.

Now I didn't and don't live in a mansion but in my experience I always looked for the police to show up after I tripped the alarm even if I cancelled the call. I'm not saying Ragsdale was obligated to look for them but he had to at least think it could be possible the police would show up considering who he was and where he lived.

Jaxon
07-17-2006, 10:43 AM
I think the homeowner either made a ton of mistakes or there are parts of the story that aren't getting accurately reported.

So you come home early from vacation, forget to deactivate your alarm and set it off. Most alarm companies I know do not contact the police until they have tried calling the numbers for the homeowner. Presumably the phone rings at the guys home but he doesn't answer it and provide the codeword?.

Did the homeowner deactivate the alarm at the control panel, I would think so.

What did the homeowner do after that? did he bring his luggage inside, close the garage door, make sure everything was locked, then go to bed? or did he leave the house unlocked so the officer could easily enter?

Then the police officer arrives, did he break into the house? alerting the homeowner and make him grab a gun, or did he enter through an open door (making him very suspicious that a break-in was occuring??

All smells very fishy to me.

+1

That was my question. The officers obviously entered the home. How? The homeowner seems to be in the minus category here. Just from personal experience, both as LEO and civie, I know the alarm beeps to tell me to turn it off and when I miss it the alarm company calls.

Why was the homeowner armed in the first place?

RJ

matt1956
07-17-2006, 01:48 PM
one thing to note, I highly doubt that the alarm goes DIRECTLY to the police. 99% of alarm are sent to the alarm company that handles the account. Exceptions would be Major Banks. Fire systems however are different and set by the town on how they are handled.

So... if the police showed up. One of several things occured:

Alarm company never called home owner or did and got no answer or incorrect passcode.

Alarm was tripped at a point that was set up by the home owner as a immediate police call point.

Someone other then the alarm company notified the Police and that is why they arrived.

Eitherway... very unfortunate event and the homeowner should have been sure of who he was firing at...

Chris
07-17-2006, 02:03 PM
And then there was the morning the alarm at the club went off while we were setting up a Home Firearm Safety Class.

There we are, toting a bunch of cased firearms out of the door to the armory to the classroom when up comes Mr. Friendly. Our alarm is silent, so we had no idea what had happened. None of us were on the 'OK' list, and the person who had opened up for us had already left.

The odd thing is that I spoke with the cop for like 2 minutes, showed him my Driver's license and that was it. He never even left his car.

So... if you are going to knock over the local gun club early on a Saturday morning, wear nice clothes, name badges and have someone go talk to the cop. (^_^)

Still, I wonder what the cop was thinking as he drives up and there are 4 people with armloads of gun cases coming out of the building.... (^_^)

FeeBear
07-17-2006, 02:13 PM
And then there was the morning the alarm at the club went off while we were setting up a Home Firearm Safety Class.

There we are, toting a bunch of cased firearms out of the door to the armory to the classroom when up comes Mr. Friendly. Our alarm is silent, so we had no idea what had happened. None of us were on the 'OK' list, and the person who had opened up for us had already left.

The odd thing is that I spoke with the cop for like 2 minutes, showed him my Driver's license and that was it. He never even left his car.

So... if you are going to knock over the local gun club early on a Saturday morning, wear nice clothes, name badges and have someone go talk to the cop. (^_^)

Still, I wonder what the cop was thinking as he drives up and there are 4 people with armloads of gun cases coming out of the building.... (^_^)

I am sure he was thinking, "Damn, they sure have alot of guns...."

rscalzo
07-17-2006, 02:21 PM
As I said earlier, our department answered numerious alarms during the course of a eight hour tour. The response depended on the location and the day and time of the event. Most of our alarms were commercial. The response at 10am during the week for a commercial establishment was totally different that the response during the night tour hours. A quick word with a employee was usually all we needed during the day time events. However, at 2am, you can bet it would be totally different.

dwarven1
07-17-2006, 06:28 PM
I am sure he was thinking, "Damn, they sure have alot of guns...."
Either that, or "Oh, F*** - I am seriously outgunned here." [smile]

FeeBear
07-17-2006, 06:57 PM
Either that, or "Oh, F*** - I am seriously outgunned here." [smile]

Of course if the Officer had seen Chris's Avatar, I am sure his thought would have been," Damn what is SWAT's number again?" [wink]

RKG
07-17-2006, 08:10 PM
Some observations:

1. Whether to "ship before call" or "call before ship" on a general burg alarm is an option that the homeowner specifies.

2. Assuming an known accidental (i.e., homeowner knows he set the alarm off himself), confirmed by calling (either before or after shipping) and getting a valid passcode, I doubt the central station has any obligation to call a cancellation to the PD, and most PDs will not abort as a result of such a call, anyhow.

3. On the same assumptions, the homeowner should have put on some clothes, lit up the house, and met the responding PD in the driveway, with his ID in hand (and nothing else).

4. Most alarm panels usurp the landline phone line when the panel goes into alarm (whether or not backed up by a second mode of communications). So if you trip your own alarm, there's a period of time when you cannot call out, either to the central station to abort the ship or to the PD to advise them, yourself, of the accidental. A good reason to have a second line or a cellular phone upstairs.

5. The bigger issue is not a known accidental, but what do you do if you're sound asleep and the alarm goes off on a burg audible in the middle of the night? Here's what we do:

A) Get out of bed, find glasses, grab pistol. Note that we haven't ventured beyond the nightstand at this point.

B) Press a button that lights up all the lights on the first floor and basement, as well as the outdoor lights.

C) Take up a strategic position at the top of the stairs and stay there.

D) Call PD on cell, advise that the cause of the alarm is unknown, and that we are upstairs and will stay there, tossing out a tennis ball with a house key attached to it out the second floor window when the first officer arrives.

6. In a well designed alarm system, a true burg will set off more than one detector, and any faulted detectors will show up in the panel (which is right next to that nightstand. A quick glance at the panel and evaluation of the detector LEDs will give you a pretty fair idea of whether the alarm is real and someone has proceeded beyond the window, real and they bolted, or false.

Hate to say it, but on the bare facts revealed here, I'd say the homeowner was trigger happy.

Coyote33
07-17-2006, 08:29 PM
...5. The bigger issue is not a known accidental, but what do you do if you're sound asleep and the alarm goes off on a burg audible in the middle of the night? Here's what we do:

A) Get out of bed, find glasses, grab pistol. Note that we haven't ventured beyond the nightstand at this point.

B) Press a button that lights up all the lights on the first floor and basement, as well as the outdoor lights....

You know, it just dawned on me. Maybe the homeowner here was in bed, and the neighbor tripped the alarm snooping around. The neighbor denied anything to the alarm company, and homeowner hadn't a clue since he was sleeping... Hmmm.

dwarven1
07-17-2006, 08:40 PM
4. Most alarm panels usurp the landline phone line when the panel goes into alarm (whether or not backed up by a second mode of communications).
Only if they're wired correctly - I've been dealing with several installations recently in Worcester that weren't. [rolleyes] They are now, though. (you have to have a special jack that passes the "signal" through the jack - the alarm panel can just trip a relay that shuts off phone service to anything "downstream" of the jack while it grabs the line. (RJ-31, if anyone's interested))


B) Press a button that lights up all the lights on the first floor and basement, as well as the outdoor lights.
How do you have that set up? X10? Didn't that cost a pretty penny?


6. In a well designed alarm system, a true burg will set off more than one detector, and any faulted detectors will show up in the panel (which is right next to that nightstand. A quick glance at the panel and evaluation of the detector LEDs will give you a pretty fair idea of whether the alarm is real and someone has proceeded beyond the window, real and they bolted, or false.

Hate to say it, but on the bare facts revealed here, I'd say the homeowner was trigger happy.
Um... if the system was off and the system wasn't set to chime on zones opening, the homeowner wouldn't have any clue that someone came in. And I suspect that when he did realize there was someone there, he didn't call out for the same reason the cop didn't call out - so he didn't give away his position.

This sounds to me like an accident - unfortunately, the events conspired to produce the results. Sure, cop and homeowner could have done things differently, but they didn't. The cop was maybe not as experienced as he could have been (one year on the force), the homeowner came home at 2 AM (tired? not thinking straight?), and it sounds like adrenaline and events just worked out wrong. Thank G-d that the cop will recover!

Jaxon
07-18-2006, 12:28 AM
<SNIP> This sounds to me like an accident - unfortunately, the events conspired to produce the results. Sure, cop and homeowner could have done things differently, but they didn't. The cop was maybe not as experienced as he could have been (one year on the force), the homeowner came home at 2 AM (tired? not thinking straight?), and it sounds like adrenaline and events just worked out wrong. Thank G-d that the cop will recover!

Yep, sounds like that quote from "Big Jake"
"..your fault, my fault, nobody's fault... it won't matter,.."

And somebody got shot.[frown]

RJ

Cross-X
07-18-2006, 06:22 AM
So... if you are going to knock over the local gun club early on a Saturday morning, wear nice clothes, name badges and have someone go talk to the cop. (^_^)
(^_^)


Chris, you give yourself too little credit. I'm sure he didn't wanna tangle with a sandal-wearing, scooter-riding gun-nut!







Besides, for all he knew, you might have been the president of a scooter gang! [smile]