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View Full Version : .458 SOCOM....what do you guys think??



Ryan9896
02-29-2012, 05:29 PM
the first time i saw this caliber was on Sons of Guns when they built the .458 SOCOM on the AR platform. LOVED IT!!!! now, i see Rock River Arms offers a complete upper assembly compatible with any lower assembly, the rounds even fit in the same 30rd mags u would use for .223/5.56. i'm thinking, i would love having a .458 AR sitting in the closet for home protection, but at $700 for the upper, do you think it's worth it? and from what i read, it's about $4 per round?? would i be better off just getting a .40 or .45 cal hand gun and save the money?? what do you guys think?? just the idea of having such a high caliber AR that people don't see everyday, to me, may be worth the money alone....

Bob J
02-29-2012, 07:50 PM
I have one and it's a lot of fun but I cast and do my own reloads.... That cuts the cost significantly....

wmass
02-29-2012, 08:03 PM
I've been debating a .458 or a .50 Beowulf. I've shot the Beo but not the .458. It is appealing to be able to use standard AR mags but the price and availability of ammo is a hindrance.

M1911
02-29-2012, 08:18 PM
Unless you are rich or reload...

Ryan9896
02-29-2012, 08:19 PM
That's what I'm saying, seems very awesome to have, but not very recreational friendly. Seems like it would just be sitting looking pretty more than shooting and looking scary. But even the videos I've watched, it doesn't seem like it has much recoil...yet plenty of stopping power. Even with the cost, a part of me still wants it, lol.


@Bob J....what do u figure ur cost per round is reload g them urself?

Yazz
02-29-2012, 08:38 PM
I have one and it's a lot of fun but I cast and do my own reloads.... That cuts the cost significantly....

What is the kick like? My shoulder hurts thinking about it.

Bob J
02-29-2012, 08:47 PM
That's what I'm saying, seems very awesome to have, but not very recreational friendly. Seems like it would just be sitting looking pretty more than shooting and looking scary. But even the videos I've watched, it doesn't seem like it has much recoil...yet plenty of stopping power. Even with the cost, a part of me still wants it, lol.


@Bob J....what do u figure ur cost per round is reload g them urself?

Cast and reloaded is roughly $.17 a round.... This is basically powder and primer with a small addition for a home made gas check.... Lead I get basically free and not counting the cost of the brass (which has a very long life if you treat it right)....

Bob J
02-29-2012, 08:52 PM
What is the kick like? My shoulder hurts thinking about it.

Kick is basically like a shot gun for my guns.... Both the 458 SOCOM and my Beowulf have muzzle brakes and Ace Skeleton stocks with the extra thick pad.... They also have recoil reduction buffers (one hydraulic and the other mechanical) which do make some difference... These big bore AR's need to be configured with recoil management in mind.... Not something you want to build with an A2 stock....

My son and I regularly bring these to green shoots..... You are welcome to shoot them if you come to one we are at....

Bob J
02-29-2012, 08:57 PM
I've been debating a .458 or a .50 Beowulf. I've shot the Beo but not the .458. It is appealing to be able to use standard AR mags but the price and availability of ammo is a hindrance.

Yep, both the 458 and beowulf use standard mags..... The only issues we have had is with the followers (Magpul self leveling rocks!) and the bullet configuration (Flats and RF tends to jam if you do not have the mags tuned perfectly).... Originally we had problems but since have gone to Magpul follower, GI mags and Round nose bullets.... Since that time have had no problems at all (roughly 500 rounds shot in each gun)....

Ryan9896
02-29-2012, 08:57 PM
That is pretty decent savings!! I'm wondering about the recoil as well...is it tolerable?? accurate with quick follow up shots?? Seems like it has significant muzzle rise, but not as much kick as I would expect. That's what my eyes are telling me anyway, not my shoulder.

Sportsman11669
02-29-2012, 09:03 PM
It's definitely one of those calibers you want to reload. I guess I'm a recoil junkie, as I don't mind the larger recoil. It's just one of those love hate relationships. Bob and his son Marcus are top notch guys, I too have sought advice from them. There's about a 60 to 90 day wait on 458 uppers and rifles from RRA.

Ryan9896
02-29-2012, 09:04 PM
Yep, both the 458 and beowulf use standard mags..... The only issues we have had is with the followers (Magpul self leveling rocks!) and the bullet configuration (Flats and RF tends to jam if you do not have the mags tuned perfectly).... Originally we had problems but since have gone to Magpul follower, GI mags and Round nose bullets.... Since that time have had no problems at all (roughly 500 rounds shot in each gun)....

Love the magpul followers!! I've been getting the preban AR mags from keepshooting.com and upgrading the followers to magpul. For roughly $14 each u end up with new surplus preban 30rd mags with self leveling followers that function perfectly for cheap money. I would imagine those followers would improve the feeding with that huge shell.

Bob J
02-29-2012, 09:06 PM
That is pretty decent savings!! I'm wondering about the recoil as well...is it tolerable?? accurate with quick follow up shots?? Seems like it has significant muzzle rise, but not as much kick as I would expect. That's what my eyes are telling me anyway, not my shoulder.

Very tolerable.... Like a pump shotgun but again you need to do your build with recoil in mind... Muzzle break and the 1 inch pad are the most significant helps.... If I did another build would pass on the buffers since my opinion is that they did warrant the extra cost....

Bob J
02-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Love the magpul followers!! I've been getting the preban AR mags from keepshooting.com and upgrading the followers to magpul. For roughly $14 each u end up with new surplus preban 30rd mags with self leveling followers that function perfectly for cheap money. I would imagine those followers would improve the feeding with that huge shell.

Yep, am not sure how well the 30 rounders feed but the smaller ones feed fine... Both the 458 and the beowulf are designed to feed single stack in a standard AR mag...

Marcus5aurelius
02-29-2012, 09:13 PM
They're both a lot of fun, the recoil is manageable and if you can reload the ammo isn't too expensive. I prefer the Beowulf personally but they're both really sweet rounds. They're not designed for long distance shooting, but for short distances they're devastating. [smile]

Harkes2k
02-29-2012, 09:45 PM
This seems like something I will have to look into... after my 5.56 and .22 AR's are done [wink]

drgrant
02-29-2012, 09:51 PM
If you aren't handloading, then run away. These types of uppers (.458, .50 Beowulf, etc) are all worthless albatrosses unless you are a reloader, you'll go broke in about 3 minutes shooting the thing. If you do reload then you have access to a couple of great calibers.

Brass also can be an issue. If you are thinking about getting one 6 months from now start looking for or ordering brass NOW.

-Mike

Exousia
02-29-2012, 09:54 PM
I love to shoot Bob and Mark's .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowulf rifles on the AR platform. They are both really cool and nice shooting guns. I have nothing negative to say about them except cost. I have decided that my Marlin .45-70 lever gun is close enough. It is not as cool and only holds 6+1 rounds but the performance is similar and it cost me less than $500 and the brass is much easier to come by.

edmorseiii
02-29-2012, 09:55 PM
I shot a 450 Bushmaster this weekend, it was my first time with a big bore AR15. Not sure how it compares to the SOCOM or Beowolf, but felt like a 12 gauge slug, but really fun to shoot. Would be a cool pig gun or something fun to blast away with, but I think I would rather a 556 gun for a self defense gun for the recoil and magazine capacity.

Ryan9896
02-29-2012, 10:09 PM
I do like having 30rds before the first reload. I have an AR already, so I was thinking I could just get the upper and swap them at will. But it seems I would need a different buffer setup to go along with the upper.

edmorseiii
02-29-2012, 10:14 PM
I do like having 30rds before the first reload. I have an AR already, so I was thinking I could just get the upper and swap them at will. But it seems I would need a different buffer setup to go along with the upper.

I can dig it. I was just reading a little bit about the SOCOM round, 600 gr bullets boulders at 1000 fps is pretty interesting. [devil2]

Yazz
02-29-2012, 10:47 PM
Kick is basically like a shot gun for my guns.... Both the 458 SOCOM and my Beowulf have muzzle brakes and Ace Skeleton stocks with the extra thick pad.... They also have recoil reduction buffers (one hydraulic and the other mechanical) which do make some difference... These big bore AR's need to be configured with recoil management in mind.... Not something you want to build with an A2 stock....

My son and I regularly bring these to green shoots..... You are welcome to shoot them if you come to one we are at....

I will try them! Thanks.

lupis42
03-01-2012, 07:51 AM
Yep, both the 458 and beowulf use standard mags..... The only issues we have had is with the followers (Magpul self leveling rocks!) and the bullet configuration (Flats and RF tends to jam if you do not have the mags tuned perfectly).... Originally we had problems but since have gone to Magpul follower, GI mags and Round nose bullets.... Since that time have had no problems at all (roughly 500 rounds shot in each gun)....

Other bit of potential in the use of standard mags is, IIRC, some companies make some nice new 10-round .458 SOCOM AR mags...



ETA: Whether you would be able to avoid prosecution/conviction in the PRoMA, I can't say. But it's an entertaining thought...

Bob J
03-01-2012, 08:24 AM
I do like having 30rds before the first reload. I have an AR already, so I was thinking I could just get the upper and swap them at will. But it seems I would need a different buffer setup to go along with the upper.

Would not worry about the buffer..... Muzzle brake and the 1" pad on the Ace stock make the most difference.... If I had to do over again I would not have spent the money on the recoil reduction buffers...... Highest cost of any of the mods and IMHO had the least impact on recoil......

I had to special order my 458 direct from RRA since it had to have the brake welded..... I don't remember how long the wait was but it was in the several month time frame.... Also I got the mid length barrel which some have had a problem developing a good load for (though Mark and I have not had any problems to date) so if I had it to do over starting out would have gone with the carbine.....

Edit: As sportsman pointed out in a later post, I did order this through Pete who had to special order it from RRA.... Pete is a great guy and will save you a fair amount over going direct to RRA for one of these.....;- )

Bob J
03-01-2012, 08:27 AM
I will try them! Thanks.

I just noticed that you are in Eastern MA..... Do you shoot at Braintree?

If yes, Mark and I shoot there pretty regularly and would be glad to bring these if you want to give them a try.......[wink]

Sportsman11669
03-01-2012, 09:41 AM
I ordered mine through Pete (http://www.ar15sales.com) in NH directly from RRA as well, of course Bob J and Marcus recommended his services to me. I too purchased the mid length upper with the break welded onto it. I know that Petes estimated time of delivery was something like 7-9 weeks, and that was his best guess. I know that its been at least 4-5 weeks since I ordered mine, and I am chomping at the bit waiting to build this up. I should be all set and running hopefully by the first NES shoot, so if all goes as planned i will be bringing the socom and a few rounds to share if anyone wants to give it a whack then.

If any one is definitely interested in ordering a 458 socom upper or rifle, I would strongly urge you to take Bob J's, Marcus' and my recommendation, and give Pete a call. His prices are a lot better than what you will get directly from RRA yourself.[rockon]

Ryan9896
03-01-2012, 11:52 AM
sounds good guys!!! i saw a video on you tube where the guy swapped from a .223 upper to the .458 without changing the buffer, so i guess it would work with my lower the way it is. i am in the middle of a Saiga conversion in 7.62x39, so maybe when i finish that, i will be in the market for one of these uppers. sounds fun....if i can make it out to a shoot to try one, that would be great!!!!

Chris
03-01-2012, 05:05 PM
I got my .50 Beowulf upper before my lower was available. (those of you who were in the first lower group buy in 2008 know that fiasco)

So.. I got a conversion pin and mounted it to my Colt lower for "testing" purposes.

My .50 Beowulf upper has no muzzle device. My Colt has the factory A2 stock with the metal endcap/storage door.

Needless to say, shooting it that first time with just a T-shirt left an 'impression' on me. Got a nice bruise on my shoulder.

My current lower has a Skeleton stock with a pad, but even with that, the lower screw has pretty much destroyed the pad under recoil.

To me, the recoil is no worse than a 12 gauge 3" magnum in a break or pump. Recoil bothers people in different ways, so one person's experience is not a good measure for another's. Different loads also matter. Different bullet profiles also feed differently. Some feed in any mag I use, others I need to use specific magazines. As the original AR magazines were not designed to hold the rounds by the edge of the lips, you'll find that many will put deep gouges into the cases. Take a fine file and smooth out the under side of the lips a little to avoid this. (I used an Omaha stone)

Reloading is almost a requirement for these rounds. There are plenty of loadings out there now for just about any bullet/powder you care to try.

http://home.comcast.net/~csiano/AR2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~csiano/NES-AR-Shooin.jpg

Ammo Comparison (http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/45909-50-Beowulf-%28and-a-comparison-to-the-S-amp-W-500-Magnum%29)