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Woda
11-10-2011, 10:16 PM
I was born and raised in CT.

Went to College in MA, and have been living in MA now for a few years post graduation.

I understand the AWB in MA, and always thought it had expired in CT much the same way it expired in the rest of the country.

Recently I was told that is incorrect and that the AWB is still in effect in CT.

Can someone point me in the direction of some clear info on what is legal/illegal in CT. Specifically the conversation arose about a Saiga-12 with pistol grip, collapsible stock, and 30rnd drum mag; legal or not in CT?

JFDugal
11-10-2011, 10:36 PM
Here's a link to the AWB 'rules' in CT:

http://www.ct.gov/dps/lib/dps/special_licensing_and_firearms/assault_weapons.pdf

Unfortunately, the shotgun you described above falls into the 'evil, bad gun' category since it has three 'evil' features - a pistol grip, a collapsible stock, and a high capacity detachable magazine.

Ain't living in CT grand?

CTsupra
11-11-2011, 04:04 PM
Ain't living in CT grand?

It could be ALOT worse. For instance, ask the OP.

BossHarley
11-11-2011, 04:37 PM
Shotguns are even worse than most rifles (AFAIK) I believe a standard shotgun with a pistol grip and extended tube is a no no in this wonderful state.

tmitney
11-12-2011, 02:42 PM
Just remeber that the AWB statute has handgun, rifle, and shotgun "catagories" ... there are differences bewteen them and what features they [dis]allow.

CTsupra
11-13-2011, 09:37 AM
Shotguns are even worse than most rifles (AFAIK) I believe a standard shotgun with a pistol grip and extended tube is a no no in this wonderful state.

Nope, I have a remington 870 pump that came stock with 7 shot tube and a pistol grip. I put an adjustable butt-stock on it and it is still AWB compliant.

jamesb
11-13-2011, 10:49 AM
What he said. If the shotgun was semi-auto too then it would be a no go.

Woda
11-14-2011, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the input.... I just lost a bet ... and now I'm considering if it's worth moving back to CT or to just deal with MA laws.

JFDUGAL: Thanks for the link, any idea why the list in addition to the "rules" it seems that these (Armalite AR-180, Bushmaster Auto Rifle, Colt AR-15 and Sporter) would be legal under the rules if there wasnt a list.

Is it the same in CT as in MA where if the gun is preban its ok?

No magazine capacity rules in CT right?

Can you pin an adjustable stock/muzzle break/flash suppressor to make it legal?

Is there a group like GOAL that is working on CT gun laws? Its getting to be that charitable donation time of year.

JFDugal
11-15-2011, 01:16 AM
any idea why the list in addition to the "rules" it seems that these (Armalite AR-180, Bushmaster Auto Rifle, Colt AR-15 and Sporter) would be legal under the rules if there wasnt a list.Not sure what the reasoning was behind this. Maybe to permanently ban a group of firearms they perceived as 'evil' regardless of modifications to pass their 'evilness' test?


Is it the same in CT as in MA where if the gun is preban its ok?Not 100% sure on this. I thought it was, but the info on the DPS site doesn't say a whole lot about legality of firearms targeted by the ban that were made prior to Oct 1993. Maybe someone else here can clear this up?


No magazine capacity rules in CT right?There used to be mag capacity rules, but they have since expired.


Can you pin an adjustable stock/muzzle break/flash suppressor to make it legal?Yes. Watch out with the flash suppressors though - those are an 'evil' item.


Is there a group like GOAL that is working on CT gun laws? Its getting to be that charitable donation time of year.I don't think there's an organization in CT that's similar to GOAL. At least none that I've run across yet.

buketduder
11-15-2011, 09:08 AM
There is an organazation..

http://www.ccdl.us/

CTsupra
11-15-2011, 07:00 PM
made prior to Oct 1993.

It's made prior to September 13, 1994.

Woda
11-16-2011, 08:09 AM
Ken - are you confirming that preban is ok in CT or just pointing out the correct date of the ban?

CTsupra
11-16-2011, 08:35 AM
Ken - are you confirming that preban is ok in CT or just pointing out the correct date of the ban?

Both!

Just can't have ak47 "types" in 7.62mm, or other weapons specifically named on the AWB list - preban, or not.

dcmdon
11-17-2011, 12:33 AM
Shotguns are even worse than most rifles (AFAIK) I believe a standard shotgun with a pistol grip and extended tube is a no no in this wonderful state.

Read the reg. Thats not entirely right. First of all, the reg only applies to semi-auto shotguns. So pumps don't even come into play with the CT AWB.

You can have no pistol grip and unlimited rounds.
You can have a pistol grip, and 5 rounds max.

Here is the language of teh CT AWB: http://www.vw.com/en/models/golf/gallery.html

A Saiga with a pistol grip or folding stock would be illegal under the CT AWB because it has a detachable magazine.

However, if you get a dragunov style stock, its not a pistol grip and you are good to go with a conversion to move the trigger forward:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6539/saiga12.jpg

Its a pain in the butt to understand this stuff, but once you do, you will see there is a way around almost every aspect of the CT AWB.
This only makes sense since the the guns they tried to ban are functionally identical to all kinds of non-scary "sporting" guns.

For example:

So you want an AK? Simple, get an AK74. They shoot better and the ammo is cheaper anyway.
So you wan an AK with all the evil features, folding stock, threaded bbl, flash hider - simple, go get yourself a pre-ban Norinco in .223. These used to be prohibitively expensive, but since the recession . . oops, I mean "recovery summer", they can be had relatively inexpensively.

You want an AR? Here is where my personal preferences come into play.

I don't really find much use for bayonet lugs. I haven't had the need to use my gun as a spear and I have a hard time finding grenades to use in my grenade launcher.
I also don't like folding/telescoping stocks. I'm not a commando. I play games with my guns and use them defensively. Folding stocks are functionally inferior to fixed stocks when it comes to their actual use in shooting the gun. So I have no need for them.

I do however like sound suppressors. So I need a threaded bbl. But I'll get to that in a minute.

If you can get by with a fixed stock, and you have a permanently affixed muzzle brake on your gun, then you are in compliance with the AWB with a standard AR.

if you want all, or even One of the evil features like I do, you can shell out $500 for a pre-ban lower and build whatever you want on it.


This is my pre-ban AR that is a Registered SBR. Notice the fixed rifle style stock. The only thing that really requires it to be pre-ban is the threaded bbl.

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx207/dcmdon/DSC_2119.jpg

Hope this helps.

Don

wrongcaptcha
11-17-2011, 07:11 AM
Don,

I read around the internet similar musings that the Saiga with the stock in that image was allowable under CT Law. I would like to do the conversion on mine, but I haven't seen any concrete evidence that this was true. Before spending an arm and a leg on the parts and kit, I want to be sure to avoid legal trouble. Do you have any wording from the DPS on the issue or know who to contact?

Thanks

dcmdon
11-22-2011, 10:50 AM
The wording is in the definition of an AW.

(C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:

i. a folding or telescoping stock;

ii. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

iii. a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and

iv. an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

For years the ATF has allowed guns to be brought into this country with thumbhole stocks that would not have been legal with traditional pistol grip stocks.

There is years of precedent of nothing being done to anyone with a thumbhole stock.
Remember, that our legal system is based on the premise that if something isn't explicitly prohibited, its allowed.

So in short, there is no statute saying "This is legal". But there is years and years of precedent of the thumbhole stock being a legal alternative to "A pistol grip that protrudes conspiculously beneath the action of the weapon".

By the way, this language was taken directly from the federal AWB enacted in 94 and expired in 04.

The DPS by the way, will not give you an opinion. They do not want the liability of coming down on a different side of a law than some other part of the state legal establishment.

Don

wrongcaptcha
11-24-2011, 10:59 PM
I got in touch via writing to the DPS. They said like you said, "they don't provide legal advice" but offered the following.


The photos you provided show that the grip is constructed into the stock thus limiting the rotation of one’s wrist. Therefore this would not be considered a pistol grip by statute.

I sent them the photos shown above.

This falls under the, ain't specifically outlawed section of our law. Not sure I would want the ATF or DPS knocking down my door with mine in the safe, but I'm pretty good at not doing anything wrong and giving them no cause to.

drgrant
11-24-2011, 11:18 PM
Minor thread drift....

BTW another way around the "exposed threads" problem with cans on ARs in CT, is there are companies (like Surefire, maybe someone else, I forget) that make "lugged" brakes which will allow you to attach a can without using threads. (lugs are not threads, wallhack!)

-Mike

dcmdon
11-25-2011, 08:38 AM
Yes those brand specific Brake and suppressor combos work great. YHM makes similar stuff that's a bit more reasonably priced for those of us who can't/won't pay the Surefire premium.

RB101
03-31-2012, 09:16 AM
I can't seem to figure this CT AWB either! The possibility of me relocating to CT surfaced overnight with a job prospect. I have been reading ever since. I currently own:

a GSG5 .22 rifle with some minor mods, stock fake shroud
a Century SAR 3 AK VAriant in 5.56
a Century Uzi 9mm with pinned folding stock

From what i have read, the GSG is fine, the AK is also OK because it is not 7.62?? Can someone point me towards some reference information regarding that? That is what is thwoing me off.
And the UZI is a no-go, because it is listed/sold as a C.A.I. Uzi, and UZI is listed in the AWB?
And all my pistols are OK?? (non have forward grips)

Just when I thought I had MA conquered.. I think I'm getting dumber as I get older.

Thanks

dcmdon
03-31-2012, 10:59 AM
I need more details.

Off the top of my head:

1) wha t kind of stock does the GSG, telescoping / folding
2) gsg - is the bbl threaded?

SAR3 AK - does it have a threaded bbl? flash suppressor? bayonet lug?

UZI - this is the onnly clear one. No go.

Link to AW definition: http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/glossary/assaultweapon.htm

The part about AKs having to be in 7692x39 to be considered an " Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type" as written in the AWB definition came from case law. Not a statute. I'll try to find that.

But suffice to say the GSG's and the AKs legality hangs on the evil features clearly defined in Sec 3a at the link I sent you.
Unless the AK was made before 94, in which case it can have all the evil features.

For example, I own a Norinco AK in .223 with a bayonet lug, flash suppressor and folding bbl that is perfectly legal in CT because it was made in 86.

Don

dcmdon
03-31-2012, 11:08 AM
RB101,

Look on the bright side. Moving to CT will be a HUGE net win for you from a 2A rights perspective.

Check out this thread I started a while back and read my original post:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/138959-Connecticut-Land-of-the-Free-!!-A-real-alternative-to-NH?highlight=

RB101
03-31-2012, 02:20 PM
1) wha t kind of stock does the GSG, telescoping / folding
2) gsg - is the bbl threaded?

SAR3 AK - does it have a threaded bbl? flash suppressor? bayonet lug?

Thanks for the quick response DCM. No quams about CT, other than the area I think I am going to be forced to live..Fairfield County. Job is close to NYC. Yes, better than Ma I'm sure. XDs here I come!

In response to above..

GSG is just standard factory plastic stock. No folding/telescoping. No bayo lug, no flash supp. Nothing crazy. SAR 3 same...bought in a MA gun store- No flash supp., no lug, Non threaded bbl. And pistols should all be good, right?

How would I go about determined the age of my SAR 3 just for curiousity's sake. It may be an early 90's import.

RB101
03-31-2012, 02:37 PM
Actually the GSG does come with the fake can "sound supressor", for aesthetics only in hiding the barrel. I'm assuming it's completly seperate from a flash supp?
28845

dcmdon
03-31-2012, 02:41 PM
A fake can is just window dressing on the bbl. Totally fine.

Just looked at the GSG online.

So here are our answers so far:

GSG - OK
Uzi - Not OK. (Unless its a machine gun with the semi-auto disabled, ha)

AK - undetermined, waiting to find out if it has folding/telescoping stock, threaded bbl, flash suppressor, or bayonet lug. The presence of any ONE of these would make it an AW if its not pre-ban. If its pre-ban all of these are allowed.

RB101
03-31-2012, 02:48 PM
AK - undetermined, waiting to find out if it has folding/telescoping stock, threaded bbl, flash suppressor, or bayonet lug. The presence of any ONE of these would make it an AW if its not pre-ban. If its pre-ban all of these are allowed.

Responded 2 above. All 4 Q's are negative. looks like shes coming with.

dcmdon
03-31-2012, 02:58 PM
Thanks for the heads up.

to determine the age of the Century, you could need to contact them. However since it doesn't have a threaded bbl or lug, its safe to say its post-94 since prior to then you couldn't buy an AK with a plain muzzle and no bayonet lug.

Re handguns, CT has no restrictions on handguns other than the stuff in our AW Ban. The intent here is to hit handguns built on rifle platforms. Like handgun ARs and AKs.

A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
i. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
ii. a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;
iii. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
iv. a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
v. a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.

Please note that none of these affect any handgun that are the least bit useful except for maybe some old full sized Uzi's, M11s, and the Ruger Charger. This law really only affects novelty guns used by people who rarely shoot them.

RB101
03-31-2012, 03:06 PM
Much appreciated kind sir!