PDA

View Full Version : Snowblower vs Wet Snow



Bob J
01-19-2011, 08:27 AM
Ok, got through the last storm but since I live near the coast the snow was very wet and heavy..... My snowblower (21 year old toro 624) does a decent job as long as I can keep the chute from icing up.....[thinking]

Knowing what a creative and practical group NES members are I thought I'd see if anyone has found any successful strategy or snowblower mods to prevent this problem....[wink]

cockpitbob
01-19-2011, 08:29 AM
[popcorn]
Just bought my first snow blower and it doesn't do slushy snow at all. Fortunately I got the driveway done yesterday before the rain.

Mike1911
01-19-2011, 08:48 AM
Try using either a silicone spray or PAM (the cooking canned oil stuff) may help.

LenS
01-19-2011, 08:52 AM
Yes, I read this somewhere long ago.

Spray PAM or similar product in the chute, on the auger and walls of the snowblower before using it. Last two storms, I did this the night before and it worked well.

It won't prevent clogging completely, but it seems to minimize it.

I've heard of some people waxing those parts, but I don't like the idea of EVER putting my hands in there and sitting out in the garage in cold weather to do it isn't my idea of fun, so the spray grease (PAM equivalent) will have to do.

dwarven1
01-19-2011, 08:53 AM
Ok, got through the last storm but since I live near the coast the snow was very wet and heavy..... My snowblower (21 year old toro 624) does a decent job as long as I can keep the chute from icing up.....[thinking]

Knowing what a creative and practical group NES members are I thought I'd see if anyone has found any successful strategy or snowblower mods to prevent this problem....[wink]

Yes, I did find a creative solution to the problem. I bought a snow blade for my lawn tractor.

Worked just great until I lost a tire chain last night. I think it's somewhere in the snowbanks lining my driveway... where it will stay until spring, I think, since we're supposed to get another 6" on Friday. [banghead]

Finalygotabeltfed
01-19-2011, 08:55 AM
Secret to throwing slushy snow is to move forward fast enough to keep continuity of the slush in the throwing impeller. Its basically like a pump, if it loses its prime, it stops output.

You can't creep the thing along, you've got to put it in second or third gear and get into the stuff. Try it next time.

Bought a Troy Built and it went right along through 7+ inches of heavy wet slushy snow, 3rd gear, RPM full.

radioman
01-19-2011, 08:58 AM
Wet snow it tough on even the best machines. I have no advise on wet snow but if you have less than 2 inches of slush I find increasing speed helps. It gives the augers and impeller more to work with. It allows the impeller to grab into more mass and throw it father. Yes, it is tough on the belts but as I said before "wet snow is tough on even the best machines"

Blitz1
01-19-2011, 09:00 AM
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn187/Blitz_050/Snow_Shovel.jpg

[smile][wink]

MisterHappy
01-19-2011, 09:12 AM
Move? [wink] [laugh]

Bob J
01-19-2011, 09:35 AM
Thanks guys..... Will give the pan/silicone spray a try in the next storm and keep the speed up..... Will let you know how it works.....[thinking]

Waxing sounds interesting..... Am thinking that the spray may not hold up very long given the volume/velocity of the snow as it hits the chute.... A decent layer of wax might do the same (water/ice repellent) and be more abrasive resistant.... Might give that a try as well....

LOL Blitz, have a pretty good sized driveway and have shoveled in the past but would certainly like to avoid that if I can....[smile]

Happy, grew up in Florida (before I joined the Navy) so I hear you..... Winters certainly make that option tempting......[wink]

Burgermeister
01-19-2011, 09:41 AM
I was out last night with the 15+ year old 824 Toro. It was like snowblowing through a Slush Puppie.

garandman
01-19-2011, 09:44 AM
Ok, got through the last storm but since I live near the coast the snow was very wet and heavy..... My snowblower (21 year old toro 624) does a decent job as long as I can keep the chute from icing up.....[thinking]

Knowing what a creative and practical group NES members are I thought I'd see if anyone has found any successful strategy or snowblower mods to prevent this problem....[wink]If you go to OPEonthenet (http://www.opeonthenet.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1) you'll find folks that have tried PAM, silicone spray lube, furniture wax, car wax [what I use], soap, etc.

But most of the time that doesn't solve the problem with slush. The throat gets clogged, and the heat from the machine and the mechanical action of the impeller compress it further. This is especially bad if the snow has salt in it, and if the chute is pointing straight ahead.

As far as solution, I've used a 5hp, 7hp, 8hp, and now 11.5hp machine in Boston. And the only thing that has worked on heavy, wet, salted snow thrown up by the plow trucks is the 11.5hp machine. Everything else bogged down.

The other thing you can do is to take very narrow passes - 6-12".

KilgoreTrout
01-19-2011, 09:45 AM
Secret to throwing slushy snow is to move forward fast enough to keep continuity of the slush in the throwing impeller. Its basically like a pump, if it loses its prime, it stops output.

You can't creep the thing along, you've got to put it in second or third gear and get into the stuff. Try it next time.

Bought a Troy Built and it went right along through 7+ inches of heavy wet slushy snow, 3rd gear, RPM full.

Full power, higher gear. This works.

Bob J
01-19-2011, 09:46 AM
I was out last night with the 15+ year old 824 Toro. It was like snowblowing through a Slush Puppie.

I know what you mean..... How did it do?

The last storm took down an number of trees in the neighborhood and dropped a 12 in limb on my roof.... Just got it cleared yesterday.... Snow stuck to everything..... Very heavy wet stuff....[thinking]

AppleSeeds
01-19-2011, 09:47 AM
Silicone spray was what I was going to say as well. It helps, but it's not a fix-all. Whatever you do, don't stick your hands in there to clear a clog. Take the extra minute to walk and grab a broom handle or whatever and use that.

Boghog1
01-19-2011, 09:49 AM
+whatever on the pam, or you can spend the $ on Snow Repelent (http://www.amazon.com/FINISH-LINE-TECHNOL-INC-DSR610101/dp/B0031T82NO)

Burgermeister
01-19-2011, 09:49 AM
[QUOTE=Bob J;1725857]I know what you mean..... How did it do?QUOTE]

Most of the time it only threw the snow 6 feet. So that meant snowblow the edges first and then work to the middle, where I was essentially throwing the same slush a second time.

Bob J
01-19-2011, 09:53 AM
Silicone spray was what I was going to say as well. It helps, but it's not a fix-all. Whatever you do, don't stick your hands in there to clear a clog. Take the extra minute to walk and grab a broom handle or whatever and use that.

Thanks! Have been using a short 1" dia pole to clear the clog.... Each time the primary areas that clog appear to be the back of the chute (ice buildup) and right at the throat where the secondary transitions to the chute...... I use the pole to break it up and then engage the impeller to spit it clear.... Sometimes takes 2 or 3 passes to get it out and back to running.... Never seem to have much problem with ice building up on the impellers so am thinking I need to just focus on coating the chute and the throat.....[thinking]

Bob J
01-19-2011, 09:56 AM
+whatever on the pam, or you can spend the $ on Snow Repelent (http://www.amazon.com/FINISH-LINE-TECHNOL-INC-DSR610101/dp/B0031T82NO)

Thanks! Saw snow repellent in some of my online searches but am thinking it's not much better than the pam for a lot more money.... Would rather avoid anything spendy if I can....[smile]

Bob J
01-19-2011, 10:00 AM
[QUOTE=Bob J;1725857]I know what you mean..... How did it do?QUOTE]

Most of the time it only threw the snow 6 feet. So that meant snowblow the edges first and then work to the middle, where I was essentially throwing the same slush a second time.

Mine does the same when its really heavy and wet..... Think that is more due to the lack of horsepower (6HP) than anything..... At one point thought about buying a newer model but many seem to use cheap materials (lots of plastic) and they are way beyond my budget.....

Speedway
01-19-2011, 10:03 AM
Secret to throwing slushy snow is to move forward fast enough to keep continuity of the slush in the throwing impeller. Its basically like a pump, if it loses its prime, it stops output.

You can't creep the thing along, you've got to put it in second or third gear and get into the stuff. Try it next time.

Bought a Troy Built and it went right along through 7+ inches of heavy wet slushy snow, 3rd gear, RPM full.

Awesome advice.

Also, make sure the auger belt is tight so it is not slipping.

Bob J
01-19-2011, 10:07 AM
Awesome advice.

Also, make sure the auger belt is tight so it is not slipping.

Thanks! New Auger belt this season and made sure to adjust it so it was just shy of turned with the dead man released..... Has lots of umph when the snow is dry..... It's just the wet stuff that I struggle with....[thinking]

pernox
01-19-2011, 10:09 AM
Lubricating a snowblower chute is one of many uses for used motor oil. [grin]

RKG
01-19-2011, 10:14 AM
Yes, I read this somewhere long ago.

Spray PAM or similar product in the chute, on the auger and walls of the snowblower before using it. Last two storms, I did this the night before and it worked well.

It won't prevent clogging completely, but it seems to minimize it.

I've heard of some people waxing those parts, but I don't like the idea of EVER putting my hands in there and sitting out in the garage in cold weather to do it isn't my idea of fun, so the spray grease (PAM equivalent) will have to do.

Not only should you never put your hands in either the augur area or the impeller area when the machine is running, you should be exceedingly hesitant to do so even with the engine off. (Residual compression has generated more than a few amputation ALS runs.) My rule is that you always pull the spark plug before working in these areas.

For what it may be worth: I use either PAM or dry PFTE (Teflon) spray, on both the inside of the chute and the inside of the augur housing. Just give the sprays enough time to dry up before starting out. I haven't had a chute clog in years (though doubtlessly I've just jinxed myself).

Burgermeister
01-19-2011, 11:04 AM
Not only should you never put your hands in either the augur area or the impeller area when the machine is running, you should be exceedingly hesitant to do so even with the engine off. (Residual compression has generated more than a few amputation ALS runs.) My rule is that you always pull the spark plug before working in these areas.



I'm teaching my son exactly this....only clear the chute with one of the broken hockey sticks from the corner of the garage.

Tyke
01-19-2011, 11:21 AM
I'm shocked no one's yet suggested WD-40!

MichaelJ
01-19-2011, 11:32 AM
I second Tyke ... I use WD40 before every outing with my Ariens. On a side note, I have also heard of washing it down at the end of the season and spraying on the WD40 for summer storage to prevent rust. In addition, I like to store it on a 2x4 so that the only thing touching "ground" are the tires to prevent rusting.

As far as the slush goes, it was said before...pick up the speed.

Tyke
01-19-2011, 11:37 AM
In addition, I like to store it on a 2x4 so that the only thing touching "ground" are the tires to prevent rusting.

How does keeping it off the ground help prevent rusting?

alphawolf
01-19-2011, 11:40 AM
Automotive paste wax does a killer job of not letting any snow stick to the insides of a thrower. I also wax the shovels every 2-3 storms.... awesome.

FLHTC
01-19-2011, 12:17 PM
I live near the ocean also and for years I had a 1964 Arens 6hp, 6hp just isn't enough machine so when I bought a new machine I concidered going to the 8Hhp, I know I didn't want to spend a lot of money and find I was under gunned (no pun intended) so I went for the 10.5hp. The storm a few weeks ago used every hp i had, now I wished I had bought a 12 or 14 hp. The issue is the larger the hp, the larger the path it clears.

dixidawg
01-19-2011, 12:21 PM
I live near the ocean also and for years I had a 1964 Arens 6hp, 6hp just isn't enough machine so when I bought a new machine I concidered going to the 8Hhp, I know I didn't want to spend a lot of money and find I was under gunned (no pun intended) so I went for the 10.5hp. The storm a few weeks ago used every hp i had, now I wished I had bought a 12 or 14 hp. The issue is the larger the hp, the larger the path it clears.


This. Nobody ever said

"Gee, I wish this thing had less power."

careful34
01-19-2011, 12:44 PM
Anyone remember an old snowblower design where the impeller axis is parallel to the auger axis? I saw one once, but I've never used one. Was told they worked well, but then why aren't all blowers like that now?

PaulD
01-19-2011, 02:26 PM
Not only should you never put your hands in either the augur area or the impeller area when the machine is running, you should be exceedingly hesitant to do so even with the engine off. (Residual compression has generated more than a few amputation ALS runs.) My rule is that you always pull the spark plug before working in these areas.

For what it may be worth: I use either PAM or dry PFTE (Teflon) spray, on both the inside of the chute and the inside of the augur housing. Just give the sprays enough time to dry up before starting out. I haven't had a chute clog in years (though doubtlessly I've just jinxed myself).

Residual compression? Can you explain this more?

I simply open the belt cover and remove the belt.

drgrant
01-19-2011, 02:42 PM
Wet snow it tough on even the best machines. I have no advise on wet snow but if you have less than 2 inches of slush I find increasing speed helps. It gives the augers and impeller more to work with. It allows the impeller to grab into more mass and throw it father. Yes, it is tough on the belts but as I said before "wet snow is tough on even the best machines"

Another thing is... if it snows, and then starts to rain... get out there ASAP.... the longer you wait the worse it gets. It goes from wet snow, to being heavy slush, and then if you wait until tomorrow, you end up with an iceberg.

-Mike

ScottS
01-19-2011, 03:13 PM
This. Nobody ever said

"Gee, I wish this thing had less power."

+1.

I've always used silicone spray, or WD-40 in a pinch if I'm out of silicone, on both my blower and shovel(s). Thanks to everyone for the "go faster" tip. I think I will have a chance to try it soon.

dwarven1
01-19-2011, 03:20 PM
As far as solution, I've used a 5hp, 7hp, 8hp, and now 11.5hp machine in Boston. And the only thing that has worked on heavy, wet, salted snow thrown up by the plow trucks is the 11.5hp machine. Everything else bogged down.

Thank you, Tim Taylor. The solution is more power!! urgh, urgh, urgh!


I use either PAM or dry PFTE (Teflon) spray, on both the inside of the chute and the inside of the augur housing. Just give the sprays enough time to dry up before starting out.

Is THAT the secret??? I always wondered why they never worked for me!


Automotive paste wax does a killer job of not letting any snow stick to the insides of a thrower.

Hmm... must try this.

garandman
01-19-2011, 03:54 PM
Automotive paste wax does a killer job of not letting any snow stick to the insides of a thrower. I also wax the shovels every 2-3 storms.... awesome.I've found that to be true as well. Everything works OK for a little while but the car wax seems to last a lot longer.



Anyone remember an old snowblower design where the impeller axis is parallel to the auger axis? I saw one once, but I've never used one. Was told they worked well, but then why aren't all blowers like that now?There were several such designs. But they were more mechanically complex (ie, expensive to produce), and had to be substantially longer, so they were kind of hard to handle. One was an early Simplicity design:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/spectrum_pb/snowvintage/simplicitypaddle.jpg

But the Bob-Cat seemed to be the most popular machine of the type. They had a reputation for really being able to chuck snow! A collector in MA owns this one but I don't know him.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/spectrum_pb/snowvintage/bobcat2.jpg



Thank you, Tim Taylor. The solution is more power!! urgh, urgh, urgh!//Exactly.

Q. What do you do with a 1970 Ariens 5hp snow blower that has gotten a little tired and rusty?

A. Think, "What would Tim the Toolman Taylor do?" //
I started out to fix a 1970 Ariens 5 hp my dad bought, and wound up doing a nuts-and-bolts level restoration which included a 7 3/4hp OHV engine. My brother uses it and it kicks booty.

http://dervish.smugmug.com/photos/461434522_QHdXs-L.jpg

And wider tires.
http://dervish.smugmug.com/photos/733161079_4t4Pf-M.jpg

Thread. (http://www.opeonthenet.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81)

BWhite
01-19-2011, 04:07 PM
There is no substitute for horsepower.

ScottS
01-19-2011, 04:43 PM
Anyone try one of the Clarence Snowblower Impeller Kits? They get rave reviews on the Snowblower forum mentioned above, and are supposed to be the shit on wet snow.

garandman
01-19-2011, 04:46 PM
I've had one for two years but haven't installed it. I need a right-angle drill or something because getting at the impeller to drill the holes is difficult.

RKG
01-19-2011, 05:51 PM
Residual compression? Can you explain this more?

I simply open the belt cover and remove the belt.

Residual compression: You stop the engine by turning off the "ignition" or turning off the fuel. On its last gasp, the piston passes over TDC but does not make it all the way down. You still have some compressed air in the cylinder, with both valves closed, but not enough to overcome piston and ring friction. Until you touch the impeller and move it just enough to overcome inertia friction. The residual compression spins the impeller just enough to reduce your number of digits from 10 to 9. Most FDs will see one or two of these a year.

Taking the belts off is a solution equally effective as removing the spark plug (but maybe not as easy). With the belt removed, any movement of the crankshaft will not be transmitted to the impeller.

JimB
01-19-2011, 06:13 PM
Thanks guys..... Will give the pan/silicone spray a try in the next storm and keep the speed up..... Will let you know how it works.....[thinking]

Waxing sounds interesting..... Am thinking that the spray may not hold up very long given the volume/velocity of the snow as it hits the chute.... A decent layer of wax might do the same (water/ice repellent) and be more abrasive resistant.... Might give that a try as well....

LOL Blitz, have a pretty good sized driveway and have shoveled in the past but would certainly like to avoid that if I can....[smile]

Happy, grew up in Florida (before I joined the Navy) so I hear you..... Winters certainly make that option tempting......[wink]

the pam will last longer than the wax..

ooglassoo
01-19-2011, 06:44 PM
I was just talking to my dad before the last storm telling him my blower spits out ice logs. He told me to spray with pam, I did and voila this thing works like a charm.

NautiBuoys
01-19-2011, 07:32 PM
I've had best luck with hairspray versus the Pam, silicone, WD-40, wax whatever...seems to stick and last longer yet is absolutely clear.

BWhite
01-19-2011, 07:44 PM
'nuff said http://www.gizmag.com/for-the-man-with-everything-the-v8-snowblower/4889/

Patriot
01-19-2011, 08:16 PM
'nuff said http://www.gizmag.com/for-the-man-with-everything-the-v8-snowblower/4889/

Be still my heart! I love it! More Power!

careful34
01-19-2011, 09:08 PM
But the Bob-Cat seemed to be the most popular machine of the type. They had a reputation for really being able to chuck snow! A collector in MA owns this one but I don't know him.
Thread. (http://www.opeonthenet.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81)

That's the one! Brand, anyways. I'd love to see one in action. They supposedly make a unique sound in operation.

ETA: Well that wasn't hard:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxZJv9uQm9I

nhbubba
01-19-2011, 09:25 PM
I use MB brand cooking spray. Have a can of it in the garage right next to the blower.. werkz good.

The other thing is to be sure to try and keep the impeller and the chute lined up. On my machine the thrower rotates counter-clockwise as you look at it from the front, so it throws best with the chute pointed across the machine from right to left (from the front). Point the chute the other way and the slush has to change directions 1 more time and slows down.

Although I do wish for more power... I am sure it would help.

I started out to fix a 1970 Ariens 5 hp my dad bought, and wound up doing a nuts-and-bolts level restoration which included a 7 3/4hp OHV engine. My brother uses it and it kicks booty.

http://dervish.smugmug.com/photos/461434522_QHdXs-L.jpg
Speak of the devil.

So I have an early 70's Ariens as well. The machine is older than I am, but the price was right. My blower has what I am pretty sure is a Tecumseh. It has a sticker on it that says "6HP" (yeah, right! maybe for the first decade), but other than that the engine looks just like yours, rust and all.

How hard is it to repower these things? I've been kicking the idea around for a while now.

My old man inherited my grandfather's old Toro when he passed away. Something like 11HP. But the real upswing of the thing is that it has a 36" carriage. Does the driveway in three passes!

flintoid
01-19-2011, 10:05 PM
http://www.scarpaz.com/Napalm/napalm.jpg

Bob J
01-20-2011, 09:54 AM
'nuff said http://www.gizmag.com/for-the-man-with-everything-the-v8-snowblower/4889/

LOL! Can't go wrong with a V8!

garandman
01-20-2011, 11:53 AM
//Speak of the devil.

So I have an early 70's Ariens as well. The machine is older than I am, but the price was right. My blower has what I am pretty sure is a Tecumseh. It has a sticker on it that says "6HP" (yeah, right! maybe for the first decade), but other than that the engine looks just like yours, rust and all.

How hard is it to repower these things? I've been kicking the idea around for a while now.//Depends on the engine, but it's usually a few hours work. Most of the OHV engines have an overhang that requires you put a universal joint into the chute crank. Some may require new mounting studs. The most popular choice is one of the B&S Intek snow engines, but folks have also used cheap Harbor Freight Honda clones, Robin-Subaru OHC engines, and one guy put a B&S twin on one!

The important consideration is that the shaft have the same diameter as the pulley and be the same height off the deck so you can use a standard length belt. You can use a different pulley and/or belt, but the install starts to get a little more complicated. The details of my transplant are in this thread: "Overhaulin' a 1970 Ariens. (http://www.opeonthenet.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81)" there are other parts you probably want to replace, like the impeller bearing, auger bushings, axle bushings, etc. I also got ride of the turf tires and chains for snow tires. I repainted it, but if I had to do it over again, I'd have the blower housing powder coated.
http://dervish.smugmug.com/photos/461435137_CyDmE-L.jpg

I still have a spare blower housing, auger, wheels, etc.

Business
01-20-2011, 03:50 PM
OH boy did i have flashbacks when I read this thread title. Mine use to clog up every 2 feet if the snow was wet. After swearing at it for 5 minutes I realized that didnt help. I tried the pam spray. that increased the 2 foot range to about 10. i bought a plow truck for the next winter

kevin9
01-20-2011, 03:59 PM
http://www.scarpaz.com/Napalm/napalm.jpgLooks like great performance. Delivery might be tricky though, keeping it between the curbs.

SteelShooter
01-20-2011, 04:18 PM
I just got a new toro 1433 CC 4 cycle, with the rubber fiber blades and it works great in everything except 5 day old frozen ice/snow. I had about 25" here the last storm and did my 35 yard long driveway in about 30 minutes. The great part about it is it is so light you can really manipulate it around if you hit a tight spot. It also gets right down to the pavement. The typical end of the driveway slush goes great, it will only shoot it about 10 feet, but thats enough.

nhbubba
01-20-2011, 06:03 PM
The details of my transplant are in this thread: "Overhaulin' a 1970 Ariens. (http://www.opeonthenet.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81)" there are other parts you probably want to replace, like the impeller bearing, auger bushings, axle bushings, etc. I also got ride of the turf tires and chains for snow tires.That looks oh so fantastic; seriously almost too good to use.

May just be looking into this myself next spring.

radioman
01-20-2011, 06:19 PM
Anyone remember an old snowblower design where the impeller axis is parallel to the auger axis? I saw one once, but I've never used one. Was told they worked well, but then why aren't all blowers like that now?

That design is great for throwing the snow straight ahead but throwing it to either side is a problem. Most people want to throw the snow to the 9 or 3 o'clock position. The perpendicular impeller design is much better suited for this.

radioman
01-20-2011, 06:32 PM
Rebuilding an older Ariens machine from the 70's or even the 80's will net you a better machine than a brand new one and at a lesser cost. Parts are available for most all Ariens models. I get many of mine from ebay. Believe it or not I find them to be much cheaper there. The older machines had better full length auger axles, better auger gearboxes(cast iron), drive axles, friction disk design(axle supported on both ends) etc... Many of them will have tire chains. Back then most dealers would not let a machine out the door with out them. If you hear someone say I had a great xxxxx brand machine but it died??? Then you know the machine was not top quality from the start. Ariens snow throwers never die. You just fix them. Their always worth repairing even if the engine goes. A short block is costly but well worth it considering the cost and poor quality of a new machine. There is no system on an older Ariens machine that can't be repaired. Many of the newer brands have systems that can't be repaired. Some have integral bearings that can't be replaced and some brands the parts are so hard to get and expensive they end up not being worth fixing. You can't go wrong with rebuilding an older Ariens snow thrower.

garandman
01-20-2011, 07:15 PM
That looks oh so fantastic; seriously almost too good to use.

May just be looking into this myself next spring.While I was on a roll, I bought a 97 ST824 for $212 on eBay. It had a newly-replaced engine that cost the owner $425 at the dealer. It is a model 924050 that was manufactured for quite a few years.

Before
http://dervish.smugmug.com/photos/461435352_sQLZF-L.jpg

I cleaned up the rust and repainted, replaced the bushings and bearings, replaced the friction disk, scraper bar, rotated the rakes and replaced the shear pins, and replaced the turf tires + chains with snow tires. After.
http://dervish.smugmug.com/photos/733089683_BwBDn-L.jpg

Sold the ST824 to a guy at work and he high fives me every time it snows.


Then, after a photo session, I gave the '70 to my brother in the 'burbs, where it has soldiered on for five years without so much as draining the fuel between seasons.
http://dervish.smugmug.com/photos/584504746_x6GzJ-O.jpg

nhbubba
01-21-2011, 08:18 AM
As said garandman, your stuff is nearly too good to use. Very nice work. I will confess that I read the whole thread you posted, including the stuff about your newer machine.

I am curious though why you picked a brigs to repower the 70's machine. I had heard that newer brigs had really gone to crap nowadays. I've been told to avoid any new machine with a brigs in it like the plague.

Rebuilding an older Ariens machine from the 70's or even the 80's will net you a better machine than a brand new one and at a lesser cost.Alright, alright! Between the two of you, I'm sold. I'd been kind of half praying the machine would die so I could just go buy a new, bigger one. For the last few seasons I've been nursing it through with carb cleaner, duct tape, and chewing gum. But, as you point out, the machine just won't die. Maybe I'll reformulate that plan to include pulling it apart this spring and contemplate a proper rebuild.

Truth told, I love the mechanical simplicity of the older machines, and the lack of idiotic "safety" guards. Mine does not have a kill switch on the grips that I would have to electrical tape closed like my buddys' newer machines do.

Problems with my machine include the 24" wide carriage; I'd love a wider machine. Although at some point the machine would become too big for the missus to run if I'm not around. The lack of diff is a minor problem. Although the original 'turf' tires skid quite nicely across snow and ice, even with the chains.

But the big problem is the power unit. The machine was 'donated' to us when we bought the house by one of my mechanically-inept inlaws. Who knows what kind of horror this thing has been subjected to. My first trip down the driveway the machine dug into the berm at the end and started spitting exhaust out the side of the head! I've stayed on the head bolts since, but this thing really has seen better days. The throttle has been hacked up. At this point there is no reliable way to kill the machine except to throw it to full choke and force it to stall. Not exactly safe.

Ironically it starts great. Mine has the optional electric start, but it is seized. I've been meaning to pull it apart and see if it is repairable. But there hasn't been a need, it starts easily on the 3rd or 4th pull. Although it does run erratically now and then. The plug wire/cap is cracked. I got a nasty shock from it one day.

My machine has a separate levers to engage the auger/impeller and overall drive. Unlike yours, the main drive lever is routed up to near the handles. Unfortunately you cannot engage the drive without the auger/impeller engaged. Annoying (and dangerous) when just moving the machine.

And I'll never stop getting a kick out of telling people my snow blower is older than I am!

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/nhbubba/Misc/IMG_0412.jpg

radioman
01-21-2011, 12:28 PM
Just from your photo I can tell you that machine is defiantly worth repairing!! If the power is to low for you, the engine can be replaced with one that has one to two more HP with out over stressing the rest of the machine. Get the shaft size and the mounting spec's of the old engine and compare them to a new Snow King engine. I'd guess 4 hundred for a 8HP complete engine before shipping. Sounds like a lot of money but if you take care of it you can hand it down to your great-grand children!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190412781923#vi-content

TomH
01-21-2011, 12:37 PM
I'm running a tractor mounted blower (JD332 diesel w/ mod 49 single stage blower) and I got clogging with the wet snow also. The trick is to keep it flowing through, don't slow down too much. Also keep the chute lubed up, and smooth. Mind has some light rust which is giving me problems so a rebuild is in order after this season. There are also various mods you can do to lessen the amount of snow thrown per revolution so it can't possibly clog but that's very model dependent.

garandman
01-21-2011, 04:10 PM
//I am curious though why you picked a brigs to repower the 70's machine. I had heard that newer brigs had really gone to crap nowadays. I've been told to avoid any new machine with a brigs in it like the plague.

//Truth told, I love the mechanical simplicity of the older machines, and the lack of idiotic "safety" guards. Mine does not have a kill switch on the grips that I would have to electrical tape closed like my buddys' newer machines do.

Problems with my machine include the 24" wide carriage; I'd love a wider machine. Although at some point the machine would become too big for the missus to run if I'm not around. The lack of diff is a minor problem. Although the original 'turf' tires skid quite nicely across snow and ice, even with the chains.//

Almost all new machines are powered by Briggs Intek snow engines. Some Ariens are powered by the Robin-Subaru OHC engine, the Sno-Teks are powered by a Chinese LTC, and Hondas are of course powered by the Honda GX series, an excellent engine. Granted our B&S is a 2005 and probably US made, but I know of no specific problems. Sno-Tek owners seem pretty happy with the engines Ariens sourced as well. Many old Ariens are now powered by no-name Chinese-made Honda GX200 clones with pretty good results. Those engines are selling for $150 or so.

The old style Ariens is very simple. The tractor was a power unit that was designed to be detached from the snow thrower and used to power other devices. That's one reason they used the turf tires. If you start looking up parts you'll find a separate parts list for the tractor and blower. But almost no one did this, and as mentioned, the machines with the tractor and blower dead-man controls are a lot safer and not really that complex.

Having taken several down to their nuts and botls, I don't at all agree that the old machines are better. The rounded housings ride up, the friction disks are a bitch to change, the chutes don't throw as far, the engines are not nearly as powerful, the gear drive to change chute direction is not particularly convenient, and the only reason you have a throttle on the handlebar is to use the tractor for applications other than snow: snow engines are either idling or running full power. The old machines are sufficiently well made and durable that it can be worthwhile to repower. After you've changed a few parts on both you'll prefer the new ones, for sure. One thing that Ariens gets huge credit for: many of their parts are backwards-and-forwards compatible, so that the exact same bushings, bearings, bushing carriers, scraper bars etc can be used on just about all machines that size/width, new or old. For example, the '70 had cast aluminum auger bushing carriers, but the newer machines have stamped steel carriers that use the same bolt pattern and bushing.

If you are repowering, check the axle bushings and auger bushings. Make sure the rakes spin free. Replace the impeller bearing and belts. Once you try one of the new snow treads you'll never use chains again: you can go to a wider tread. eBay has had some great deals. Carlisle Snow Hogs are good but the X-Trac is the best.

I wouldn't worry about a wider bucket unless you have a long driveway. I have a automotive style differential on my new machine and I wind up running it with both wheels locked almost as often as I did with my old machines, that only drove one wheel unless the axle was locked. So that's not a big deal. Your machine and the pro models have a cast iron auger gear housing, but Ariens has been producing machines with aluminum housings for many years without any particular problems.

Here's why I rebuilt the 70: how could you throw away a machine with hub caps like this?
http://dervish.smugmug.com/photos/584504758_iWx5f-O.jpg

radioman
01-21-2011, 04:36 PM
I have to add that those aluminum gear boxes Ariens was using for 20 years or so (I see now they have gone back to the cast) are/were HUGE problems. That's why they returned to the cast. I've replaced 100's!! 98 out of a hundred would be bone dry on lube. Seems no one ever checks there gear box oil!! What would happen is people would never grease there augers properly. By properly I mean removing both sheer pins and rotating the augers on there axles while greasing the zerk's. Therefor the augers will seize to their shafts. After this happens if you hit anything big enough to stop the augers the gear box would strip out! We would brake them open with a big hammer to replace them quickly because none of them was ever worth rebuilding. This reduced the labor time. If the same thing happens to a cast box it is more likely the engine will stall and the gear box will be saved. This doesn't mean you can ignore maintenance but at least you get that extra chance not to have a 500 dollar repair bill.

nhbubba
01-22-2011, 06:26 PM
Ran mine again after the snow we got yesterday. Few things:

I have a diff on mine. I have no idea why I said I don't, but I do. No lockup controls for it though. Not that its ever given me any trouble.

Just as I was thinking "Man, that guy on NE Shooters changed his drive belt. Kind of amazing that I've gotten by this long without..." Pow! Drive belt broke half way through clearing the drive. And like the good boy-scout I am [rolleyes], no backup on hand. Took me the better part of 3 hours to source a replacement, install it, and get the machine back together. I had a helluva time fishing the belt through the tractor/thrower disconnect mechanism! (Any chance there's an easier way I didn't think of?)

Adjusted the friction wheel while I was at it. My friction wheel looks horrible!
And after good tap from my wrench the electric starter is suddenly working again!

The photos of mine look better than it is. Its got rust and both the tractor and the thrower assemblies have some pretty good dents in it. This machine has been beat on.

I think I traced my model number to a 1972 model year. It doesn't have those cherry hub-caps, so either they stopped doing that or mine are long gone.

But I think I'm sold on at least giving the repower route a try. When it goes it really does go well. Having a couple extra HP and a more efficient OHV engine in this chassis would be wonderful. If it were a 30-34" machine I'd probably ask to be buried with it.

Yeah, my driveway is that big. Nice and long too. So wrestling a wider/bigger machine around at the ends would be worth it for fewer trips up and down.

$4-500 for an engine is still less than some of the dog-poo new machines I've seen at the home-centers.

I'm pretty sure my rakes are not seized; I've pop'ed shear pins on both sides and the machine and I have lived to tell about it.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_TNUNIgFGzAw/TTthVPu1GfI/AAAAAAAADZE/enKKtZi4Qm8/s400/IMG_1094.JPG

garandman
01-22-2011, 06:52 PM
Don't think you have a differential. Aren't both wheels locked to the axle shaft? If you have a will have a mushroom-shaped release on the left wheel hub.

The tractor serial and model # should be on the back corner on the unit. Theblower will have another model #.

If it's running and you want a wider unit, sell it and buy one. Right now they're in demand, In late March no one wants the things.

nhbubba
01-23-2011, 09:41 AM
Has a diff. Forgot about the release on the left side. It's seized.

PaulD
01-23-2011, 06:39 PM
A question for the snowblower repair brain trust: How tight do you adjust the auger belt?

I wasn't happy with how far mine 2 stage Toro has been throwing the snow. So I took the cover off to check the belt and it was obviously looser than it should be. I adjusted it to the tension I would expect for an alternator belt on a car. I put it all back together and sure enough, it threw the snow a lot better. However, the auger and impeller were still running slowly even with engagement lever released. So, I possibly made it too tight or the belt has stretched. Or, the design just sucks because it seems like the lever for the idler wheel should have more throw so it both has good tension when engaged but is loose when not engaged.

radioman
01-23-2011, 06:44 PM
Back it off until the augers are at rest with the lever on the off position. Sounds like you have it real close just back off the adjustment a small amount until they stop.

radioman
01-23-2011, 06:50 PM
Ran mine again after the snow we got yesterday. Few things:

I have a diff on mine. I have no idea why I said I don't, but I do. No lockup controls for it though. Not that its ever given me any trouble.

Just as I was thinking "Man, that guy on NE Shooters changed his drive belt. Kind of amazing that I've gotten by this long without..." Pow! Drive belt broke half way through clearing the drive. And like the good boy-scout I am [rolleyes], no backup on hand. Took me the better part of 3 hours to source a replacement, install it, and get the machine back together. I had a helluva time fishing the belt through the tractor/thrower disconnect mechanism! (Any chance there's an easier way I didn't think of?)

Adjusted the friction wheel while I was at it. My friction wheel looks horrible!
And after good tap from my wrench the electric starter is suddenly working again!

The photos of mine look better than it is. Its got rust and both the tractor and the thrower assemblies have some pretty good dents in it. This machine has been beat on.

I think I traced my model number to a 1972 model year. It doesn't have those cherry hub-caps, so either they stopped doing that or mine are long gone.

But I think I'm sold on at least giving the repower route a try. When it goes it really does go well. Having a couple extra HP and a more efficient OHV engine in this chassis would be wonderful. If it were a 30-34" machine I'd probably ask to be buried with it.

Yeah, my driveway is that big. Nice and long too. So wrestling a wider/bigger machine around at the ends would be worth it for fewer trips up and down.

$4-500 for an engine is still less than some of the dog-poo new machines I've seen at the home-centers.

I'm pretty sure my rakes are not seized; I've pop'ed shear pins on both sides and the machine and I have lived to tell about it.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_TNUNIgFGzAw/TTthVPu1GfI/AAAAAAAADZE/enKKtZi4Qm8/s400/IMG_1094.JPG

When I replace Ariens or most other brands I split the machine. It's not as much of a pain as it sounds. If you have another person hold the handles and just let them down gentility while you remove the two bolts and the shoot adjust rod this will reveal the belts. Once you do it this way you'll never go back trying to weave it through the bottom!!

New friction wheel for that machine is about 20 bucks at the local shop.

garandman
01-27-2011, 07:38 PM
OK, I like it when it snows but this is getting a little old....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz0PmfZrb-k

garandman
01-27-2011, 07:38 PM
dupe............

SteelShooter
01-27-2011, 07:42 PM
[laugh2][laugh2] lol

MA_Shooter
01-27-2011, 08:01 PM
I recently rebuilt my carb and it runs fine but was making the final adjustments (air/fuel ratio and nut on bottom of fuel bowl - Tecumseh motor). Is there any easy way to know how to set the fast idle speed? Slow idle? I think the manual said adjust the carb at a low speed idle of 750 rpm but I don't have a a tach. Don't want to set the high-speed too high for fear of causing engine damage so what's a good set point?

dixidawg
01-28-2011, 03:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f0LdjUOfPk&NR=1